You Don’t Have a Willpower Problem with Dr. Judith Wright

What if the behavior you're trying so hard to stop isn't actually the problem?

Dr. Judith Wright calls many of our everyday numbing behaviors “soft addictions”, ordinary activities like scrolling, shopping, eating, working, or watching television that we begin using beyond their usefulness to escape what we're feeling.

And according to Judith, the answer isn't simply more discipline.

You don't have a willpower problem. You may have an unmet yearning problem.

In this Week 2: CHOOSING episode of The Delay the Binge™ Journey, Pam and Judith explore what may actually be happening underneath our automatic behaviors.

Judith explains why we often reach for quick dopamine-driven relief when we're uncomfortable and how those short-lived “wanting” experiences differ from the deeper satisfaction that comes from meeting our real human yearnings, connection, belonging, meaning, safety, being seen, making a difference, and feeling fully alive.

You'll hear about:

• What soft addictions are
• Why willpower alone doesn't create lasting change
• The deeper yearnings underneath automatic behaviors
• How to identify the trigger before a binge
• Why curiosity works better than self-judgment
• The difference between numbing and savoring
• Judith's “math of more”
• How old behaviors can become confused with identity
• Why we're meant to remain in a continual process of becoming

Your habit may not be evidence that something is wrong with you.

It may be information.

Pause long enough to listen.

CONNECT WITH DR. JUDITH WRIGHT

Website:
https://www.livewright.com/

LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/drjudithwright/

Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/drjudithwright/

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/DrJudithWright

LiveWright on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/livewright

Pause. Choose. Build momentum. Finish stronger.

Transcript

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Welcome And The Real Question

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome back to the Delay the Binge podcast. I'm your host, Pam Dwyer. If you've ever reached a goal, checked another box, worked hard, taking care of everyone else, and still found yourself quietly wondering, is this really it? Then today's conversation is for you. Joining me today is Dr. Judith Wright. Named America's Ultimate Expert by Woman's World magazine, Judith is a best-selling author, internationally recognized speaker, founder and CEO of Live Right, and one of the country's leading experts in personal transformation. She's appeared on Oprah, Good Morning America, The Today Show 2020, and in more than, are y'all ready, 1,000 media appearances around the world. For over 40 years, she's helped people move beyond simply achieving, to living lives filled with greater meaning, fulfillment, and authentic connection. But what caught my attention wasn't her incredible resume. It was something she wrote about herself. She said, I was achieving, but unfulfilled, like a hamster on a wheel. I think a lot of people know exactly what that feels like. So, Judith, welcome to the show. I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for having me. You're so welcome. Before we

Joy Rituals And A Shared Mission

SPEAKER_03 1:33

dive into your work, I'd just love to know what's bringing you joy these days and what's exciting you in this season of your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

I love that question. And it we should always have a good answer to that, don't you think? It's like really, I think for me, you know, it's it's it's the big things and the simple things. The simple things are really just spending time with my husband, having deep connection. He's also my business partner. We share a mission. There's something so beautiful about growing together continually. We've been together 45 years and it's it's deepening. So those moments are precious to me. It's the being in the hot tub in the morning and doing my prayers and at night under the stars. Just those simple things are really uh so beautiful to me. And then at the bigger level is that we are also starting kind of a new business in the last few years, like a whole nother relaunching of our work and seeing how how it makes such an impact in people's lives. Like I just, like, oh my gosh, look at that. It's like seeing seeing people's lives transform, seeing people having more quality of life, enjoying their lives, loving themselves more, having more success. That is so beautiful. So that's the big thing. So both things bring me joy. So it can be done.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

It can be done. Well,

Achievement Without Fulfillment

SPEAKER_03 2:52

I would love to go back for just a minute. You you wrote something that really caught my attention, as I said earlier in the intro. You said I was achieving but unfulfilled, like a hamster on a wheel. And the reason that caught my attention is because my mother, bless her heart, used to say, Pamela, I haven't seen you in forever. Can I just jump in on your hamster wheel for a bit? Wow. I know. So that I thought I can so relate to that. Wow. That's such a powerful picture, you know. Can you take us back to that season of your life?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yeah. I, you know, I I think I always wanted more in life. I was really trying to find out what that was. I mean, I grew up in a factory town. I grew up in Flint, Michigan, and it was um most of the people I knew worked at the factory in the assembly line, and great they had good pay and benefits, but I'm going, wait, is that it? Is that is that it? I didn't, I said it has to be something more. And I so it was this hunker that I think I had inside of me, and but I didn't have a good formula. I thought, I, I, I thought I did like, okay, I'll study, I'll be a good student, I'll get good grades, and I did all that, and I was valedictorian and did all that. And same thing I went to my early career, and I had a really beautiful purpose in what I was doing. And I made sure I was doing everything right and I met all my goals and um and and doing good work. And I'm like, well, why, but why aren't I happier? Why am I feeling so empty? Why does this feel like just this what? And it was really like that. And I just kept trying. So, well, maybe if I'm better, maybe if I'm, you know, a better person, maybe if I'm more perfect, oh, I was overweight. Maybe if I lose weight, then I'll be fulfilled, or oh, but I had a relationship, then I'd be fulfilled. And so I did all that. And it wasn't a great relationship, by the way, it's the whole part of the part of that. But I did all that, and I'm like, wait, this, I'm still empty. I still feel like I'm just going through these motions. And at this time, and I I'd even risen to national prominence in two different careers by the time about 28 or 29. So I am doing what you're supposed to do. You know, I've got a bit educated and done this in service or whatever. And I'm, and I really have a deep sense of really the hamster wheel. And even beyond that, that the hamster wasn't really taking me where I wanted to go, and I wasn't fulfilled, and I felt really empty. I remember telling my sister at that time, I feel like there's a a big hole in my heart with the windbow through it. You know, I just was not, and I'm so I can't figure it out. And my friends are saying, Oh, you're so lucky. And I'm like, wow, I guess I am, and but why do I why do I feel this way? And then at that time, I could feel the pain now as I talk about it. I'm like, wait, so I have maybe 60 more years of this. That can't be it. That can't be it. And that really became a bigger quest for me. Like, wait, I I'm not willing to be sleepwalking through my my, I don't know what it is, but I'm gonna at the time, I there's some clues I got from the workers I was doing, but it was like, I'm gonna feel my life. I'm gonna experience this. I'm I don't know how yet, but I'm gonna figure it out. And I think that became my quest. And through then I have, through my work, through my studies, through my research. It's really I really and I really studied people who were living good lives, the way I thought life could be, and learned really came, really saw, did really deep research study and what they're doing. And if they can do it, then all of us can. And that became what became part of what I've been coaching and training and teaching and our businesses about.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Absolutely phenomenal because that I mean, we talk about what's called quiet depletion, and what you just described is exactly the definition of it because everything looks fine on the outside, right? Everything's you're doing all of it, doing all of it well, but on the inside, you just feel nothing hollow. Yeah, and and so many people, especially women, are feeling this. And and later in life when when all the boxes have been checked, kids are grown, gone, and then all of a sudden they realize they're like, that's the perfect question. Is this it's like getting to the top of the mountain you've been climbing, getting to the summit and saying, Is this it?

SPEAKER_00 7:02

It's really no, it's it and the look on your face is exactly my feelings. You know, my first book, my first bestseller was called There Must Be More Than This. And that's exactly that feeling. And that's when I discovered what I then uh coined the term soft addictions, where was a part of this whole thing. What I was doing to numb myself, really. I didn't realize impact it had, but there really must be more than this. And there is more than this, and we can have it. We really can. So, and that's really what matters so deeply to me.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

And I just love that there's someone like you out there that is aware of this and that knows how to help people get through it. Because a lot of people, a lot of people don't even understand that that's what's happening inside of them.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

No, no, you we don't know, or we think that's just it, that's how it has to be or what that is. Or, or like me, I think I kind of I felt it, but then I didn't know what to do about it. So I realized now I was numbing it with a lot of the habits and even my overworking was part of numbing it because I didn't know how to feel it and I didn't know how to address what was really going on. But now I do, now I do, and that's what's so beautiful about the journey now.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Well, I can't wait to dive deep into the neuroscience of the brain and why. But um, before we go there, so when did you realize this is an important question for us to move on, but when did you realize that success and fulfillment weren't the same thing?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

I think because I had so much success and I wasn't fulfilled. So it really was in my own experience.

What Disability Taught About Being

SPEAKER_00 8:31

But then also when another part of it was part of the work that I was doing early on, I had these beautiful opportunities as a young woman. One was to start a program, a college program for students with disabilities to be able to successfully attend college. And this is the beginning. Nobody knew how to do it. The laws had changed and nobody had really done it yet. And I'm young, and I had one of the three model programs in the country to run this. And it was really like it was something, you know, and I have people who are these students are all ages, but they're paraplegic and they were dealing with deafness or blind or quadriplegia or cerebral palsy, all kinds of things that make life a a challenge, and well have challenges, but it had these particular challenges. And there was something I realized about many of the people that I was working with that there was something about several of these students uh that there was a quality of life they had that I didn't have. That was a that was interesting to me. And then I was recruited, I went to the University of Illinois, Chicago, and started another model program, one again, one of three in the country for little children with developmental disabilities and their families to be able to hopefully get a good start in life. Again, model program, three of us in the country trying to figure this out. And we kind of did, you know, there was something, and I noticed with some of the families, the parents who were willing to do that really tough work of really mourning the loss of the child they thought they were going to have, to open their hearts to love the one they were given. That tough work, many of those families had a higher quality of life and they were happier actually after this so-called tragedy than before. And that was kind of mind-blowing to me in a way, because I thought if you had the perfect mind, the perfect body, the perfect circumstances, then you'll live happily ever after. Well, they didn't have perfect circumstances or minds or bodies or whatever. And yet there was for many, not all of course, but for many of them, there was a quality of being that I did not have. There was a, they were present, there was an authenticity. The students I was working with, when something went well, they're like jubilant and celebrating, and when they weren't frustrating or crying, and I'm like, cool. I'm not gonna let anybody know that what I'm worried about, or I don't have something handled. I and cool is cold. I realized it's much better to be warm. There was something about getting that quality of experience and realizing that they didn't have success in how the world might define success, but they were fulfilled, many of them, of course, not everybody. But I was really learning something about, you know, I get teary about it because it was like the power of the human spirit and what really matters and this quality of being in the moment that is much more fulfilling than checking the boxes. But then you still might check the boxes, but it comes from a totally different way. It comes out of it's a side effect, you know. I mean that it's not the purpose of it. And I don't know how well I'm describing this, but that was my experience.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

I perfectly understand because I don't know if you know about my background, but I grew up in a very abusive, dysfunctional childhood. Then when I became aware of of all the patterns that I was experiencing from growing up like that and then working on that, I started making a difference in the world. I became a youth minister. I became this person that cared about others, a very compassionate, just a completely different person. And people would ask me, How did you turn out like this coming from that? I remember even when it was at its worst, uh, every day I'd wake up joyful.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

And I always I look back now and I think, how was that happening? Well, I was joyful up until the point that someone started hitting me or whatever. And even then I I blame myself for making them angry. It sounds terrible, but then I think, how do human beings choose joy in the worst of circumstances? And I think that's why I relate to what you're saying about these people that were physically challenged. Yes. I mean, what do you think they understand that you didn't yet?

SPEAKER_00 12:34

I think that uh they weren't trying to follow the same formula I was following because they weren't it wasn't open to them. And just societally or whatever, that they hadn't had those opportunities to have what the normal career success would have looked like or whatever. So that's not what they were going after. And there was something, and this is in the beginning of there was something about really appreciating this opportunity that they had to go to college. That's uh much more open now, but it wasn't at the point. And it was like, wow, I've got a chance here. This is something that opened for me. I'm like, yay, there's something about like, and and being with other students and having all the support that I and others were giving them. There was something very beautiful about that. And it was like this appreciation of the opportunity, the struggle with the the um being with other people. They're all pioneers at the time, too. They're all in this together, all these students working, you know, finding we're discovering all this stuff together. And there was so much about just the beingness, not just the doingness of life that really mattered. I knew the doing, but I had not honored the being. And it's the being that brings to fulfillment.

SPEAKER_03 13:40

My mantra is your past doesn't define you, it prepares you. And it's all about using pain for purpose. Well, beautiful that is what you were offering these people. You were saying, okay, you this is very painful, this is this is difficult, but we're gonna use that and we're going to turn it around and do something wonderful with it.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yep, and they did. And hopefully I had some you know support for that, but it was really quite beautiful. And I think what you know you worked on in your own life is you really do have choice. You may not be able to choose your circumstances. You that we don't have choice over. We do it, but we do have choice how we respond to it. And reclaiming that choice is really, really important, okay, given whatever these limitations are, given the abuse, given these it's it's horrific in so many ways, but that we we still can navigate within that. We can't always change the circumstances, but we can change our how we deal with it, what our attitude is. It's kind of like you know, that's why Victor Frankel's search for meaning is so important to so many people, because if you could find love and joy in a concentration camp, then we can find it within our circumstances. And it's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

It's exactly like that.

Soft Addictions Hidden In Plain Sight

SPEAKER_03 14:50

And you mentioned earlier, uh, you've coined the phrase soft addictions. I really wanted to visit that. I think a lot of people hear the word addiction and immediately think, well, that doesn't apply to me. If you could talk a little more about soft addiction and why do so many of us have them without realizing it.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Because it's so normal, which doesn't mean it's good, but it is really normal. We'll go into that. But I define soft addictions are those seemingly harmless habits that we so normal ordinary everyday activities, but we so often overdo. It's too much social media, too much shopping, too much eating, too much working. But anything can become a soft addiction if we're overusing it beyond its usefulness or using it to escape. I had a woman who uh whose family uh complained about her that she was addicted to praying. And what do you mean? Like, how could that be a problem? And they said, here's why it's a problem, because she won't talk to us, she just prays. She won't tell us what's upsetting. I said, Oh, oh, wow, it never occurred to me that something so beautiful could be and they actually worked on that. She still continued her spiritual life and her prayer, but but not at the exclusion of sharing with her family. And that was what was happening. So even beautiful things, working out can be can become addictions. So it's when we overdo those things and we're not using them beyond their purposes. And I call them soft addictions. I mean, heart addictions we know, drugs, alcohol, they they're they literally can kill you. You don't die from soft addictions, but you don't really live either. And that's the problem because it's so numbing. And we did a a Harris poll on this and throughout the United States. 91% of people admitted to having soft addictions. And I think the other 9% are in denial because we we all have them. We all are doing something to numb ourselves. It's really just a big part of our our lives. And it's it's we've always had them. I mean, our great-grandparents or whatever had them too, but now with technology and all the things that we, all the buzzes, I'm I'm having notifications and buzzes go off as we're talking. I thought I turned everything off. And I'm in part of me like, well, you know, like you part of your system wants to respond to the buzz and the click and the zoom. And it's really, it it's so ubiquitous and because it's so normal that we don't know that it's a problem. And it really, really is. It's really an indication that we're hungry for something, but not for all the stuff that we're using to try to meet that hunger that's underneath. Yes, I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

I think it's getting worse.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yeah.

Dopamine Cravings Versus True Satisfaction

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

You said uh in the questionnaire that I sent you, you said that uh you don't have a willpower problem. You have an unmet yearning problem. Yes. And I love that. I love that so much. I have a feeling that's going to stop a lot of people in their tracks. Can you talk a little bit about that, expand on that for us?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Yeah, because most people think if they do discover this, well, I've got a bad habit I have to get rid of or something, and I just need my willpower. The willpower is really limited, and it's we don't have enough of it. It's just not what it is anyway. But what I found is that, and I can go into the neuroscience maybe a little bit with this too, Pim, because it relates to this. What I found is that for every soft addiction we have, it's our systems trying to get something, it's trying to get taken care of. It's trying to get tugged on our skirt to let us know there's a need there. There's something like I'm trying to get your attention. And if we can really decode it to really see what, you know, if I'm addicted to Facebook, you know, or social media in some way, if I'm always turning to that, it's no sin. It's not moral, but it's telling us we're hungry for something that the problem is it can't get met by Facebook. We really do need face-to-face. We do need that to really fill those needs. So, and in my research, what I found about people that are living great lives is that they really they orient their lives toward what they yearn for is the word that I use, because yearning has that that you can feel that deep longing desire with it. They don't follow a formula of their society or their parents or whatever. They look deep inside. What do I really desire deep inside and to follow that? But what I found was that if we don't follow that, if we're not aware, and I'll name some of those yearnings that we have, that we're our system will try to meet that, but we get like a counterfeit um uh solution to something. So if we go to social media, chances are we're yearning for connection, we're you know, to be to matter, to really be stimulated. There's something underneath that that can't get met. And that's so can I keep on? I'll go on to the neuroscience a little bit. Would that work for us, Dan? Oh my gosh, I love it so much. Yes, yes, please feed me that. Well, this is what I found as I'm researching this morning, looking at my life and the people I'm working with, is that what happens is that when we have that you know we're upset, we have a uh we're bored, we're cranky, we're angry, we're we've got sometimes strong emotions, we're uncomfortable. We just want to manage our mood in the moment. We just want to feel better. So we grab something that kind of numbs us. Might eat, you know, three donuts, or we grab our phone, or we do whatever. And and for a moment it does kind of numb us. It does kind of, it deflects it for that bit. We're no longer in the angst of whatever, but that angst or that upset's still there. So we've kind of gone to it. I kind of talked about like we kind of like three brains. We went to our default brain, our comfort brain, which numbs us for a bit, kind of distracts us for a bit. But there's no no satisfaction, no meaning, no, no juice in that at all. It's not in that part of the brain. So what I found is there's two pleasure centers in our brain, and they're very different. One is what the neuroscientists call the wanting pleasure center, and that's the one, that craving when we just gotta have this and want this, that, then that gives and it's fueled by the neurotransmitters of dopamine. So it's dope, you know. So we're getting high. We get that little, we get that little dopamine squirt that does feel good. It's motivating, it gives us a little whatever. But the issue with that pleasure center, there's no satiation built into that pleasure center. There's no satisfaction. You never can get satisfied. It's just a little, a little, little boost. It's a motivational boost. We can use that. It's not, it's good to have that system, but we overuse it. We can't get satisfied. So that's why we go back and we get more and we want more of whatever we're doing, or grab our phone again, or whatever. However, there is another pleasure center. And this is what was so like blew my mind. It's like, yes, this explains it. There's another pleasure center they found. Some of the neuroscientists call it the satisfaction center. Some call it the liking center. I call it the yearning center. As I did my research, is that when you're doing something and meet those deeper yearnings, and these are the yearnings we all have the universal, the yearnings to love and be loved, to connect, to belong, belong, to be known, to matter, you know, make a difference, those things that really matter to all of us. When we're meeting that, that activates this other. Their pleasure center that does have satisfaction and satiation built into it. And it's fueled by different neurotransmitters of more like the opioids, more like opium, where you feel like that.

unknown 22:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Satisfied release. That release. It's like, oh, all is well. That sense of well-being. There's a so fulfilling. And that and we just have misunderstood. We haven't known about this other pleasure center. And we keep trying to feed the wanting center, the delphome. Insensitable. And it is insensable. It's a very short-lived fuel. It doesn't last at all. But the fuel on the other side of the earnings does. And that's where we feel fulfilled. And then as I was really being with that in my own life and my work and my research, I was thinking, you know, it's kind of like it's how we're designed. It's like we have physical hunger to let us know that we need to eat so we can be alive, so that we sustain ourselves. Well, this is my before I did to finish my research, I called it spiritual hunger, which I think it kind of is. It's this deeper hunger we have for something greater, the things that really matter. And if we don't fulfill that, if we don't feed that, we're never going to be satisfied. And if we really understand, but then oh I could talk forever on this, so I'll stop in a second. But it's Oh no, I love it. Okay. If we can look at what is it that I'm attracted to, that I'm grabbing, whatever, no sin, just it's it's information, it's data, it's trying to let us know like what we're looking for in the moment. And you can translate each of them. Like maybe I just I just might want a lot of ton of sugar. I want a big old piece of cake and ice cream, nearly fine. Maybe, but I really, maybe I'm really maybe yearning for more sweetness or a sense of comfort that I think that would give me. And there's a lot of other ways I can get sweetness, I could get that hug. I can get other things I can do to be able to really fulfill that, if we can really look at that, you know, or if it's sometimes a stimulation. We really do want to feel alive and like we're learning and growing, but uh it that really can't really get met well in our social media. It can if we have like a destination to it, but we're just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. We're not getting fed, we're just numbing. So that's that's a part of the neuroscience of it.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

I love it. All of my listeners too, we talk a lot about the neuroscience and how the brain works because we want to be curious, we want to understand the patterns that are causing these unhealthy behaviors that we can't seem to to control. And if you understand the neuroscience of everything, it really does help in the battle.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Oh, I there's not something like wrong with me. This is just how the wiring works. And if I understand that I can do something about it.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Yeah. We also say here on the podcast that the binge isn't the problem, it's the signal. And it sounds like you're saying something very similar. Yeah.

Decode Triggers And The Historical Why

SPEAKER_03 25:00

How do we begin discovering what we're actually hungry for?

SPEAKER_00 25:04

I think that it's hard to discover it in the moment when we're binging, because we just at that moment we just wanna we just want to manage our mood. We just want to feel better in the moment and to have some understanding and compassion for that. And sometimes you can catch it in the moment. But if we can look at it, we really can decode it. If when I wrote um the the soft addiction solution book, I put like eight key skills that really help us do that. But part of it's just what we're doing, like talking about it. It's like being aware that, oh, what are the things I don't feel so great about? What is that? Uh you know, is it um, oh, I went to watch one episode on Netflix and all of a sudden I'm six seasons in, you know, I've been sitting here for four hours and I've got Cheeto stains on my mouth, or you know, whatever. It's like the things that happen that happened. But to really look at that and like really, if we can go back and look at like, whoa, what was what triggered me? What was happening right before I did that? Was I what was I feeling? What was I thinking? What was going on? Because there's clues in that. There's um, there's always kind of a why, there's a trigger, there's in the moment trigger, but also we have what I call the historical why. We have patterns of how we've dealt with overwhelming feelings, you know, and to a little those patterns might shift a little how they play out in our lives, but we can really see that pattern. And, you know, I was a chubby kid, so I turned to food, and food became my numbing, and I and that continued to be. And I really had to work that one. I I that's how I understand about the willpower thing, because I did lose weight, but it was all willpower. I did not change my relationship with food, so I was thin and still empty, and I thought about food all the time. I what am I gonna eat? When am I gonna eat? How much am I gonna eat? When how much you know, whatever, until I started to learn to meet my deeper yearnings. And now I've never had I've never had to diet again. I I'm freed. I hadn't had no idea that could happen. I had no idea we could be freed from that. So I'm not directly answering it so quickly, but one is to be curious about ourselves and really see what was happening right before, what was I feeling, what was uncomfortable, what did I want to get away from? There's data there.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

There is, and you're hitting a sweet spot for me. This framework with delay the binge was built on the fact that I had bariatric surgery about seven years ago. And I used to be 300 pounds, now I weigh under 40. But they never taught me how to maintain my progress. And in my mind, and I think in a lot of people's minds that are using those GLP1 injections and other tools, they want the tool to do the work for them. But the tool is only an aid. The the big problem is is what brought you there in the first place? What is behind that? No one ever told me to look at that after a year, just like the surgeon said, You have a year to get the bulk of the weight off. And sure enough, that year hits and I start to regain because I never until we caught it. Oh. Yes, and maintenance, maintenance. If they taught me how to maintain the 300 pounds, I might have been able to lose. And so I'm just a big advocate for that, you know, maintenance.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

So right. You're so right, Pim. It really is. And that's what I found as well. And it was really that I would have gained all my weight back had I not discovered this at that time and really worked it. But it's like I I didn't really, I had to really change my relationship with food and with myself and understand what was going on

The One Decision That Guides Choices

SPEAKER_00 28:35

inside of me. And I then I really there's another part of this that I looked at, and I think you probably did this, whether you called it that or not, is what I ended up calling it making a one decision. Let me explain that a little bit. So we're gonna be people that run their soft addictions, and I'm realizing, wait, yeah, at our highest, this isn't what we want to be doing, you know, stuff in our faces or you know, watching our doing the crap we do, all human beings do. Um, but it in the moment we you lose track of your bigger vision. What happens in the moment you go to a lower level brain, you go more to your limbic system, to your amygdala, you just want to calm that down. We lose our frontal low prefrontal cortex, the part that has our vision and our purpose and what matters to it. That that's offline in those moments. But what I realized is that what helped me, and then I started to teach that as I made this one decision, it was related to what I talked about earlier. I really decided I want to be conscious. I am sick of being numb, sleepwalking, kind of half out of it, kind of not all there. I want to be alive, engaged, and really like that. It was really a deeper commitment that I made. But then I used that to help my smaller decisions, that bigger decisions. So I go to, I was at a restaurant and I go to order lunch. I said, Oh, what? Oh, if I eat all that fried chicken, that mashed potatoes and gravy, I thought it might taste good, but I'm not gonna feel very conscious afterwards. I'm gonna feel like a slug. I'm gonna have a food hangover after all, and the strawberry shortcut, I'm gonna be like, that's not gonna help me feel alive. What would, what would feel good to me and still taste yummy to me or whatever? And it guided even what I ordered to eat or what I'd what I'd wear in the morning or how I spent my time after work or what I how how I spoke with my friends. I said, no, this is an unconscious, gossipy conversation that doesn't fit for me. Let me shift this conversation, or I don't want to just zone out here. I want to go have a talk and a hug with my honey. You know, it helped me orient to what really nourished me when I used that bigger decision to guide my smaller decisions. And then when I didn't, I had something to measure against, like, oh, that did not feel good. Oh, that was not in alignment with being conscious and engaged and awake and alive. No sin. It's not moral, it's not wrong. It just I could reorient myself. So that bigger decision actually helped me stay more conscious to figure out what was going on in the moment, to delay the binge in that moment. It gave me a little bit more because I had programming my higher level consciousness with that that made a made a difference.

Savoring Real Pleasure To Rewire Habits

SPEAKER_03 31:02

I love that. And I think a lot of people struggle uh with knowing what the difference between enjoying something and or using it to numb something. And I know it sounds completely different, but a lot of people struggle with being able to establish the difference.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. What I've learned and teach now is really the importance of savoring those beautiful things, like when those uh really taking savorings very different. Like people say, oh no, I don't like that. I'm just gonna, you know, I'll never be able to eat a pork chocolate again. No, you should whatever. That's not the book. I'm not trying to take candy away from a baby. What I what I found was I kind of give you this example. I came up with what I called the math of more. It's by adding more things into your life that are more nourishing, you naturally start to subtract some of the things that you've been numbing with. And it multiplies your pleasure. So it was really good math, is what I saw. Yes. And it wasn't like, oh, you have to get rid of this, use your willpower, go cold turkey. But do add things to your life that really do nourish you. And you find that those other things aren't so attractive. You have a felt sense of what true pleasure feels like. That's not the same as that dopamine buzz. Like, oh, this is a really satisfying moment. And the neuroscience of that, that's uh Rick Hansen helps us with that, is that we really need to, when we have that experience of something pleasurable in that deeply satisfying way, that we're meeting those deeper yearnings. We have that sense of belonging or connecting or feeling seen or having a juicy conversation. That's how I'm feeling in that conversation with you. It's to savor that. And that means you soak it in, you like for 10 to 15 seconds to really feel it like you're soaking in the sunshine on a hot summer day, like letting it just pervade your whole body. And that 10 or 15 seconds helps it become part of our neural matter. It becomes part of us then rather than just this passing high, it becomes part of us. So we're building this reservoir of goodness and savoring. And those moments are so different. The more we do that, we realize no, this is really satisfying to really take that in.

Self Care Without The Guilt

SPEAKER_03 33:15

There's a lot of people that are so busy caring for everyone else. Oh shit. They slowly lose themselves and they're not soaking everything in, they're not reminding themselves to look in and see who they are. And for the longest time, I did not know what my favorite color or my favorite meal was. I knew what my husband's was and my children and my friends. I knew all of that, but I did not know that for myself. And if I looked in trying to figure that out, I felt like I was selfish. Oh, I need to be selfless and put everyone else before me. But in reality, it's kind of like the oxygen mask. Well, you want to give your baby the oxygen, but you've got to put yours on first.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Totally true. Well, and and you have to train yourself if you're not used to looking. And I did I had a hard time. I didn't know, I literally didn't know what I wanted to eat. I didn't know what I didn't know my preferences. I had to really pay attention and try things out and see how it felt. I really didn't know now. I'm like, yeah, I I can tell you now. But and it's common and it's and I don't want to be just stereotypical about it, but it's very common for women because we're so used to being trained to be aware of everybody else's needs. And we're selfish if we're looking at our own needs. And yet that we do need to be, I don't think it's selfish, it's it's having a sense of having enough of a self that we're maintaining ourselves, having a full enough cup so it can overflow to support others rather than you know sacrificing our beings to people. The more nourished we are, the more nourishing we can be. And it's so critical what you've what you've learned. So, so important.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Yes.

Identity Fear And Becoming Who You Are

SPEAKER_03 34:55

And I think too, I was gonna ask you about this, what your thoughts were, because I've just realized this lately with a few of my clients. They are resisting changing their issues or creating new patterns. The old patterns, they've battled the old habits for so long. That's who they think they are. They think that's their identity. Yeah, they identify with the behavior. If we eliminate it, replace it with something different, they don't recognize themselves anymore. And I think they have a subconscious fear of without this thing that I've been battling for forever, who am I?

SPEAKER_00 35:35

To profound what you're saying. In fact, when I was in Good Morning America um being interviewed by Diane Sawyer, she asked me kind of that question. It was really uh like, whoa, okay, I got to answer this in two seconds or less. But it's like, oh gosh. We kind of identify with it. It's like we think it's who we are. And no, it's not your personality, it's your habit. We talk about in our work, we talk about our matrix, kind of like the matrix movie, but our matrix is kind of the neural net of our beliefs about ourselves, what the world, what we expect from the world, what we think the world expects from us. It's just this matrix. And that matrix we get over-identified with, like this is who I am. And oftentimes who I am has a lot of mistaken beliefs in it, limiting beliefs, that kind of thing. What we work with, and as you understand more about the neuroscience, is what we call rematrixing, building a new matrix of more empowering beliefs and always being in a state of becoming, like really becoming. We're not supposed to like just settle somewhere. It's like, no. And in fact, the existential philosophers talk, they defined authenticity as being true to who you can become, not just being who you are. It's like, are you becoming, are you true to who the next you can be and the next you and get more used to that flowering, that becoming. And that's what my research showed. The people that live really great lives are always there, they're not hanging on to that old structure. It's a little scary to let that go because it's familiar, but they know that there's something more, there's more of them fulfilling that potential. And we help with that in our programs. We give people life assignments, we call it the assignment way of living, so that every week you're practicing a new lesson, but a new life assignment where you're getting used to that change. You're getting used to confronting a mistake and belief, you're getting used to building a new skill, you're getting used to the adventure of life. So that becomes more normal for you, and that helps with the unfolding.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Amazing. And we're gonna have all that in them in the show notes, everybody, and you'll be able to look that up if you need to. But what I am amazed at is the coming. I did a little series on becoming a little while back, and what I learned from all these people that I had as guests, they all had a different definition of what they think becoming means. And I realized I didn't really know. I just thought it was you were becoming someone different. But I think you're actually finding your purpose, what you were meant to do on this earth. You are coming back to who you were meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

I love that. I love looking at that. You know, I looked at it when you look at children, they're growing all the time. They're becoming, they're different. Their core is there, but they become more and more. Why do we think that stops when we're 18 or something? You know, shouldn't we continue? And they become more of themselves. So we become kind of more of ourselves the more we grow ourselves, so whatever that becoming, and it is like your your essence gets uh your essence becomes more in that way, and we become more. And that's again, it's what my research found like wow, this is really, this is really what it is, is becoming more of yourself and it is and and often and you tend to become more naturally um you come of become more of service, you to become a catalyst for other people in a way you're not not denying yourself, but it's becomes a natural part of your growing and serving. It's so beautiful, and there's no end. And if you look at our heroes and heroines in life, oftentimes there's the ones that are they're on this ongoing process of becoming. You know, there's more, they're growing. It's really, and I actually find that very hopeful. It would be like, oh, I don't want to be done. You know, what would be the purpose then? There's uh there's more of me to meet, there are more of me to discover. I'm kind of anxious to meet you. Not only do we we don't just plateau, we start to go backwards then because we're not we're not honing our selves and our crafts or whatever, or if you're a musician, if you just don't stretch yourself, you don't stay at the same capacity, your capacity lowers. Well, the same thing happens in our lives. And to really kind of get that we've just kind of taught like you're supposed to like, I don't know, arrive. Well, there's no there. There's no there, there's always a next, there's always a next. And I think it's beautiful to really that in itself is is fulfilling.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

It is just to know what's the next thing. I can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

I know, I know, and it and I think to really redefine fulfillment in that way, it's really, really beautiful. Those are those deeper yearnings we have to become who we can become, to make a difference, to do what we came here on earth to do, to fulfill our potential. That's that's the journey, and to really dedicate ourselves to growing ourselves and and being uh being who we can become is a beautiful, beautiful journey.

SPEAKER_03 40:13

It's kind of like I think fulfillment is like um like using the word hunger,

) Emotions Grace And Using Pain For Purpose

SPEAKER_03 40:20

like you do. Yeah, uh but really how do we define that? Most people think they're hungry for something when they're really hungry for something else. Yeah. But but being hungry is not the issue. We should be hungry.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yes, we should.

SPEAKER_03 40:35

We have to refocus and find what we really need to be hungry for for fulfillment. It's kind of like what I used to teach in youth ministry. Being angry is not a sin, but it's what you do with it.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Right. No, right in it can propel you into getting more goodness or more justice or more possibility. So, how do you channel that anger? And actually, we need it. I mean, many of the people have made big changes in life, have their anger has fueled them. So, but yes, responsibly channeled toward what really matters. So I think that yeah, that's where the pause comes in here. Yeah, yes, it does it works way around a little more conscious channeling of that responsible expression and full expression of our feelings. And I think this journey with our emotions, you know, I just want to underline that too. Our feelings are not mistakes, they're quite powerful, they're beautiful, they're not to be numbed. I I call say that our feelings are divine and to be honored. You know, we don't know how to do that well yet. We oftentimes let them build up and you know we're a toxic dump, and that's not what I'm saying. But to really learn to be able to be with the beautiful emotions and learn what they're trying to tell us and use them and channel them appropriately is uh is part of life that we don't have not really learned in our society well yet.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

Well, and just give yourselves a little grace, people. Come on, we're all human, and if you if you beat yourself up every time you don't meet a goal or do something you thought you should do, it's okay just lean into it, use it for energy. If someone listening has spent years trying to become a better version of themselves, what if they've been chasing the wrong thing all along? What would you what would you say to them? Uh that's what I was doing.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

I was chasing for going a while. Don't do this, stop, stop, don't go in the basement. You know, go there. No, it's just to really it's there always is data in the chase and to learn, learn from that. And what I find if we can really, and I put to teach, is really learn to recognize those deeper yearnings that we do have. And they're we all have the same yearnings. How we will fulfill them is you unique to us because our lives are different in what matters. But really it's that just it's um our really that yearning to connect, that yearning to belong, the yearning to matter, the yearning to make a difference, to be seen, to be heard, to be known, to be safe, to be secure, to be alive, you know, to to to really become who we can become. That's what really matters. And if we're not following that, we just won't be fulfilled. We're just gonna be in that pleasure center that doesn't have fulfillment in it.

unknown 43:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:22

Yeah, and and lean into the journey. Look around climbing the mountain, or it is going to be empty when you get to the top.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

No, it's it's really true. Well, and it is, you know, we we hear, oh, it's the journey, not the destination, but it kind of really is, you know. It is. It is the being in the moment enough, being present to our lives, being the be being as in the here and now as much as we can to really feel and experience life fully. It's life is here to be experienced the tough stuff as well as the beautiful stuff.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

Yeah, I wouldn't wish my childhood on anyone, but my goodness, I really love the personal. I am now, it molded me into who I am today. That's what I mean by using it. It makes it feel not worth it, but if I use that horrible situation to do good things with, it does take the sting off it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Well, you it no, I think it's beautiful because you use those tough wounds, literal, all the wounds as a way that, but that but you have a unique sensitivity because of that. You know what people really do need. You see that, you want to give that to others because you know what you didn't have and what you had that wasn't good. And you have an awareness, you have a unique perspective that really is born from those wounds. And oftentimes our purpose is really comes from that perspective that we get from those, because we know we know what's needed, we know where the emptiness is, we know where the pain points are, and that we can do something about that for ourselves and for others. There's something very powerful about that.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

There is, and if I could just take everybody that has bad trauma in their life, I just want to take them and and hold them all up.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

Yeah. We don't have to be haunted by it forever, really kind of just use those beautiful, tender wounds as a way to really propel you in your purpose, not to ignore them, not to tend, you know, we need to tend to them, we need to integrate, we need to have compassion, but it's really important. And I think you just speak with so much compassion, Pam. It's really beautiful and really for yourself and for others. It's really understanding we are all human beings, all the bozos on this bus trying to figure stuff out together. We're all like, we all have soft addictions, we all have our stuff. And the more we can that's what I found with this work and with the soft addictions work, is you have to have a sense of humor and or a sense of compassion, because otherwise it's too hard to look at it. But it's like, oh, it's like, oh honey, look how hungry you were for whatever you were at that time that you did those things. Have some really have some understanding about what was motivating at the time. And we didn't have any other, we didn't have any other tools to deal with it until we learn those tools. That's right. Compassion and understanding and acceptance for this journey. It's it's not an easy thing being on this life journey as a human being.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

No, life's very hard and unfair. But how do we learn? We learn by messing up.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Yep. And I tried not to, I tried to not make mistakes, not mess up. Oh my gosh, that's so terrible. And I like people mercilessly as now we have a whole life assignment where we have to celebrate our mistakes. We go, yes, I made a mistake. That means I went for it. That means I took a risk. It's like a good thing rather than an indictment, because I've had to really rewire myself about that. Yep, yes. Mistakes, it happens. We all do.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Yes, I remember taking a sales class and they said, let's celebrate our no's because it puts you one one more closer to the yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Well, it's true. When we do, we have a sales training too. And when we uh when we we actually make one, okay, go for go for no's. And actually, what happens is people get more sales when they're going for the no because well, yeah, it's really it's fascinating. It does work. It does work.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

Well, um, can you tell our listeners how we can find you and and just follow your wonderful work?

How To Find Judith And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 47:13

I would love that. You can go to my website, our website, which is www. LiveRight, right with our last name is a wlivright.com. And there's things on our website, but there's also a contact page. You can just let us let me know. What are you interested in? What do you maybe we can do discovery calls and uh we I just love to serve. You can get our newsletter, so just go on and sign up for a newsletter, let us know. I would really love to support. And we have lots of free things that we do, and I'd I'd love to support your listeners. It's been so you do such beautiful work, Pam. I'm so glad you're doing what you're doing in the world, and thank you for letting me be part of it.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Oh my goodness, I'm so honored that you're here. Maybe I'll make up an alias and sign up on there for discovery calls when I when I need to talk to you again.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

You can, and you can even use your real name. It's fine. It's fine. So it's my name is PJ Hamilton. Okay, I know.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

That's great.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

They're all saying, hey, this is PJ. I love it. Feel free. Any of you feel free. Oh my gosh, Judith, thank you so much. What I love about today's conversation, everybody, is that Judith reminds us the goal isn't to become better at fighting ourselves. It's to become more curious about ourselves. Because when we understand what's really driving that behavior, we stop fighting ourselves and we start healing. Maybe today's conversation didn't just make you think differently about your habits. Maybe it helped you think differently about yourself because awareness is where change begins. You don't have to fix everything today. You only have to pause long enough to notice what's happening and choose your next right step. And remember, you don't have to start over every time you stumble. Give yourself a little grace, pick up where you left off, and keep building that momentum that's already inside of you. Until next time, I'll see y'all next week. Thanks again, Judah, so much. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Thank you, Pim.