Why Everything Suddenly Feels So Hard | Dr. Vanessa Labode-Richman | The Journey: Awakening

You're still functioning. You're still handling things. But suddenly, things that once felt manageable require far more effort than they should.

Why does everything feel so difficult?

In this episode of Delay the Binge™, Pam Dwyer sits down with clinical neuropsychologist Dr. Vanessa LaBode-Richman to explore what happens when stress, grief, adversity, and unresolved problems begin consuming more of our mental resources than we realize.

Vanessa introduces Pam to a concept that changes the way we can think about depletion:

Brain Dollars.

Imagine beginning each day with a limited amount of cognitive currency.

Decisions cost Brain Dollars. Stress costs Brain Dollars. Problems we're actively solving cost Brain Dollars, and sometimes the things we're avoiding continue costing us, too.

That becomes particularly important when we're trying to interrupt an automatic behavior, because even the pause requires resources.

Pam and Vanessa explore what happens when those resources begin running low, why simply pushing harder isn't always the answer, and how greater awareness can help us understand what we're carrying before we automatically react.

You'll also hear about Vanessa's FOURward Method, including the idea that not every problem should be treated the same way: some things need to be fixed, some faced, and some forgotten.

In this conversation:

• Why everything can suddenly start feeling harder
 • The concept of Brain Dollars
 • The cognitive cost of unresolved stress
 • Why avoidance isn't necessarily free
 • Why pausing before reacting requires resources
 • Fix it, Face it, or Forget it
 • Automatic patterns and intentional responses
 • The value of journaling and reflection
 • Grief, adversity and identity
 • Surviving versus healing
 • Recognizing when you've lost pieces of yourself
 • Building resilience without simply pushing through

Connect with Dr. Vanessa

🌐 DrVanessaOnline.com
💼 LinkedIn — Dr. Vanessa LaBode-Richman
📸 Instagram — @drvanessaonline

🎧 Listen to this episode on your favorite podcast platform

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Life Feels Hard

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome back to the Delay the Binge podcast. I'm Pam Dwyer. Every one of us will face hard seasons. Some arrive without warning, some linger far longer than we expected, and some quietly change us before we even realize it's happening. The question isn't whether life will be hard, because we know it is. It's going to be hard in one way or another. The question is, how do we move through hard things without losing ourselves along the way? Today's guest has devoted her life to helping people answer that very question. Dr. Vanessa Labode Richman is a licensed clinical neuropsychologist, keynote speaker, and creator of the Forward Method, a practical psychology-grounded framework for navigating stress, adversity, grief, burnout, and life's hardest moments with greater clarity and intention. For more than 15 years, she's worked with people facing incredible challenges, translating complex neuroscience into tools that people can actually use in everyday life. One of those tools is my favorite. I just love this, brain dollars, is one of the clearest explanations I've ever heard for why so many capable, compassionate people wake up one day wondering, why does everything suddenly feel so hard?

unknown 1:31

Dr.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Vanessa, I am so glad you're here. Welcome to the Delay the Bench Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Thank you so much. I'm so excited for our conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Me

The Energy Problem Everyone Is Facing

SPEAKER_00 1:40

too. Before we talk about neuroscience and resilience and the forward method and all that, I'm curious, what's been capturing your attention lately? Like what conversations do you find yourself having over and over? Because people seem to need it right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

I think honestly, before you even finished um asking that question, my mind immediately went to, well, I'm thinking about children's development 24-7, because I have a one-year-old daughter. But that's not what your question was.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

No, that's exactly it. I love to connect with you personally first, you know, like before we go into your message. So you have a one-year-old. I have a one-year-old. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah, she's uh she's the star of our life as it should be. Um, but yeah, my my mind is very much either in taking care of her and doing right by her, or what I'm actually here to talk to you about. Um so um Well, you are all of that. I am all of that, and then some. The plate is full. Um but so when I let you finish your question, um, I think what I find people struggling with in the question that I get most often is how do we keep finding energy to do the things we need to do? And I think to your earlier point, why is it that there are times or seasons of our life where it just seems like even if we're doing all the right things, we're still somehow in a deficit. And things that used to feel enjoyable no longer are, things that used to motivate us, now we struggle to do so. And so I think um, I'm sure we're gonna get into this, but I I often feel like the way that we talk about resilience um is very piecemeal, where people offer different points of view and different strategies that work. However, it doesn't, it's not always sustainable. And I think sometimes it it can't really be tailored to every situation. And that's really where some of the metaphors and this method that I can, you know, that I've helped to develop. Um, I'm hoping that that gives folks a way to ground that really allows itself to adapt depending on what you're experiencing, whether it's burnout from work or grief in your personal life or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yes, I cannot wait to dig deep into that. I

How You Slowly Lose Yourself

SPEAKER_00 4:04

was looking at your beautiful website, by the way, and one sentence on there caught my attention right away. It says, get through hard things without losing yourself in them. I think everyone listening knows what it's like to go through something hard in one way or another, but what does it actually look like to lose yourself without even realizing it's happening?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

I think the devastating aspect of mental health is that very infrequently does it happen all at once. So I think if that change or that disintegration of self, if I I think if it happened quickly, I think we'd be on to it much sooner. But I think because it happens so gradually and one thread of us at a time starts to change color or starts to fray, it can truly take years before you kind of look up and realize, like, holy shit. I'm not, I don't, I don't know what happened, but this is not me anymore. Or I just responded in a way that is so out of character, or we find that people have actually started to distance themselves in their relationships with us because there's something about us that's off. Um, there are so many different tells that kind of wake someone up to the idea, but the reality is, and I and I think this is why this has become such a pillar of my work. Hard things are going to leave an impact. The idea, though, that it has to strip you of the thing that makes you you is not a requirement. And I think we often move through life, and a lot of the messaging, although it's intended to be well, is or is supposed to be helpful, is what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? Pain makes us strong. Well, pain sometimes is just pain if you don't do anything with it, or if you don't figure out how to manage it and contain it and cope with it in a way that doesn't actually start to strip you of who you are. And so a lot of the forward method is learning how and why to take care of yourself in a sustainable way, regardless of what storm you're in, so that when you're through it and the sun starts to come out, you actually have developed strength at the end of it, not just tolerated pain, hoping that somehow it's made you better.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

I love this so much because the whole mantra of my book, my memoir, is your past doesn't define you, it prepares you. In other words, let's learn how to use that pain of stuff that's going to happen in our lives that's difficult. Let's use it as fuel, you know, use it for purpose. Use it instead of letting it define you and and to hold you back. Uh also I do want to say that uh when I was growing up, you know, it was a very difficult, dysfunctional life, but I didn't even know it was happening. I just thought everyone lived like that when I was young. And so I carried that into adulthood. And so there was a time I weighed 300 pounds, but guess what? I didn't even realize it. And the only reason I realized it is because we went on this this airplane ride. I we went on vacation and we were in the airplane and I tried to buckle my seatbelt and it wouldn't buckle. It wouldn't all the way let out, it wouldn't buckle. And I thought, oh, something's wrong with this seatbelt. Still, I didn't get it. And so the stewardess came by and she goes, ma'am, you need an extender. She gave me this additional piece to clip on, and I thought that's when I realized, sure, oh my gosh, I I'm so big that I can't buckle a seatbelt on a plane. That's when it hit me. But you're right. Yeah, I mean, we just don't see it coming because you know, it doesn't happen all at once. It just, it's little bitty pieces that are taking you to this place.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

I think that's the really um challenging thing about childhood trauma or childhood experiences that shape us. You know, as those of us that have the good fortune of reaching adulthood and can't have the privilege of kind of being able to reflect and think about our lives, we can make sense of stories we've told ourselves that maybe no longer serve us, that you know, we can modify to better um describe what happened then and to move us forward kind of in that moment for you. And I've certainly had moments like that in my life. But I think what's so magical and also so tragic is that when a child is going through something different difficult, whether they know it's normal or not, their brain and their mind is going to do whatever it takes to get them through it because human beings, we are built by design. Like our software is for survival. And that's one of the things that I try and help people understand is that the things that you feel like are going to break you, it is normal to anticipate that it will. But the reality is most all of us have what it actually takes to survive something because we're actually built for struggle. And so that moment when you're on the airplane and you have this insight and this realization, what that also shows is that your mind helped you cope with something in a particular way for a very long time. And because you didn't notice that it was unhealthy or maybe not helping you move through something, it was just helping to kind of contain or maintain something, it got you through. Yeah. Right? There, there can be a part of us that can have awareness and compassion for that part of us that made it through that dysfunction, that made it through that difficulty. And then as an adult, we kind of have the opportunity to be like, okay, how do I now do this differently? What did I learn from this? How do I modify this? Um But yes, I think, I think childhood trauma, childhood difficulty. I mean, many of us, you know, my dad was sick my whole life and passed away when I was 20. Um, I never realized that I was living through trauma until I went to my PhD program. I was 25 years old. And the director of training asked me what kind of experience I was looking for for my first clinical year. And he kind of was going to put me in a place when he could tell I really wasn't into it. And then I disclosed to him that, you know, my father had passed away a few years earlier and that he had been sick from the time that I was five or six. And his, he literally said to me, Oh, you're a trauma baby. And in that, I was first, I I mean, I didn't say anything, it was a director, but I went home like trauma. What? And now when I think about it, it seems so absurdly obvious that this career also chose me. That um, you know, I think it because I didn't know any other life, that I didn't know what it was like to have two parents that were healthy, that I didn't know what it was like to not be worried that a parent was gonna die. Like I had no relative comparison. And so, you know, I think speaking to what you're you're kind of alluding to, life is really hard. We get through it the ways that we can. And yet there's also a way to get through it where at the end we actually can appreciate the strength and perspective we have at that point without losing ourselves in that journey.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

That is perfection. Yes. I just love this so much. Someone that can actually put expertise and words to what I've been trying to say all this time to everyone.

Brain Dollars And The Real Cost

SPEAKER_00 12:03

One of the concepts you teach is, and I love this so much, can't wait to talk about it, is brain dollars. And it really made me smile when I first heard it because it's such a simple way to explain something so complex. Can you tell us about the brain dollars and why understanding them changes the way we think about stress?

SPEAKER_01 12:26

So I want you to imagine that everything your brain does costs it money. That money, in terms of science, is the resources, the energy, what it needs to kind of function. But I think because we all have an understanding of how finite and how expensive things are, I think the idea of comparing it to money can really help bring, you know, this idea to life. So every single thing your brain does costs it money from helping you to experience pain, not mental pain, like pain, like if you burn your hand on a stove. That is wiring through your central nervous system and your brain. Deciding to shower in the morning, what are you gonna have for dinner, comparing two brands at Target, deciding to stay at a toxic job, planning brunch with girlfriends, deciding to take your daughter to the pool, grieving a parent, every single thing your brain, the organ, and your mind is responsible for costs it money. Why does this matter? Every night you go to sleep, on some level, it's more brain money is deposited into this bank. You wake up, you're refreshed, hopefully, and there's more money in the bank than when you went to sleep. Okay. Certain decisions that we make or that we carry long term are not a one-time cost. So, for example, let's say you and I go to lunch, I'm trying to calculate the tip for the meal in my head, five brain dollars. Easy peasy. Once I'm done with the tip, that cost goes away. I want you to imagine though that I'm in a very difficult, unhealthy relationship with a partner. That's not a one-time cost. Let's say conservatively, I work with people. This is not the cost, but let's say it's only $50, brain, brain dollars every day. You do this for two years, five years, right? We're talking about an amount of energy and resources that could truly go toward other things, but we're on some level out of avoidance or thinking, I don't, I can't do this right now, or I can't do this right now, or it's okay. You're there's still a cost. And the problem is we don't usually hold things like this for like two months. We will hold them for a very long time. We will stay in that job that completely diminishes our ability for personal balance for a decade. We will maintain friendships or significant relationships with other people, even though they deplete us for a very, very long time. There is a daily cost for everything our brain holds, kind of like the tabs on the internet. So everything that slows your computer down is going to drain you of those brain dollars. So at some point, someone wakes up very slowly being like, Man, I don't know why I just can't get out of bed. Or all of a sudden they're late on deadlines, or all of a sudden that school play that they used to look forward to for their child, they now are like, oh, I have this fucking thing tonight. Right. Like all of a sudden, even the things that bring us joy no longer feel that way because those things also cost brain dollars. Imagine planning vacation. It's a fun, good thing. It still costs something. Right. So if we start to become, if we're in a deficit of that brain money in that bank, not only are you hemorrhaging those resources for maintaining the hard thing, which at some point you're not going to be able to hold anymore. You're also diminishing the amount of resources you could be putting towards pursuing joy, connection, fulfillment. And that's why things like burnout really start to happen, where all of a sudden you feel almost numb or vacant and just exhausted, where no matter how much sleep you're getting, it doesn't actually refill you. And it's because we haven't spent the time actually depositing more into this bank than we're withdrawing. And I think what I really want people to appreciate is the decision not to handle something hard is still a decision. It doesn't actually put things in like time suspension. It still is going to cost you something. And over time, if you wait too long, I think it starts to change that fabric we were talking of about before of like who we are, because the energy has to come from somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Oh my gosh. That visual is dead on, is perfect because there's two things I always hear from people that are reaching out, you know, to to me in one way or another. And they're both they all say that they're uh they feel nothing inside, even though they have every reason to be joyful and they're exhausted, tired. Almost every woman I speak to says, I'm so tired, and my doctor doesn't know what's wrong with me. Why am I so tired? Something's wrong, and they just have no clue why they don't feel anything and why they're exhausted. You just described it perfectly. I love brain dollars. I'm gonna use it. I know that for sure.

Frame It Fix Face Forget

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Please do. One of the many things I love about your work is that your very first step uh isn't action. It's understanding what kind of hard thing you're facing. Why do we rush into solving problems before we've even identified what we're actually dealing with?

SPEAKER_01 18:21

So the forward method, um, it's spelled technically incorrectly where it's F-O-U-R, because there are four components of the method. Um, and each letter of four primes you for what that's that component is. So as you're saying, the first component is you're gonna frame the problem. Frame the problem, yep. Generally, we have three options. Now, problems can sometimes move in and out of these, but generally we're either going to fix it, we're gonna face it, or we're gonna forget it. We fix the things that have an easy solution. So, for example, if all of a sudden the Wi-Fi starts to cut out, we have to figure out that connection issue, we check our routers, we restart, you know, the program, then it's over. Fix it problems have a one-time cost for brain dollars. Easy peasy. That's not lingering, there's no tax. Things that we face are the things that we are gonna choose to be uncomfortable with because we have a really good goal. We are not choosing discomfort because we can tolerate it. That's bullshit. That will drain you for no reason. So, for example, if you're in an emergency room with a loved one, you're gonna feel uncomfortable. You're gonna feel nervous. Why, you know, what's going on? This person, you know, if they're running tests, whatever it is. But you're choosing to be tolerating that discomfort because you're either gonna be there to help them advocate for their care, or you're gonna be a support person, or maybe you're managing their health care, whatever it is, right? So there's a goal attached to that discomfort. So those are the things we face, the things we can't change, and the things that we have a good reason to tolerate. The things that we're gonna forget are the things that are unhealthy to accept. Relationships that drain us, that deplete us, that devalue us, that are disrespectful, um, work culture that does not allow you to replenish or deposit back into your brain bank. You know, these are the things that will only deplete you over time. And yet many of us find ourselves rationalizing why it's a good idea to keep things in our lives that do nothing but make us feel worse and actually drain our resources over time. And so this first component is really helpful because what I found in working with patients and also in my own life, retroactively looking back, obviously at the mistakes I've made, um it's always in, it's always in the rearview mirror. Um hard things are hard. Anyone who's trying to sell you shit that like it's not that way, they're lying. Hard things in life are always gonna be hard. However, when there's a mismatch between the correct framing for coping and the actual stressor, you will struggle more than the stressor actually requires. So it's gonna be really important. You know, you talk about the pause. This is one of the moments of the pause where when you find yourself in the middle of an issue, it's gonna be really important to take a beat and to be like, okay, what am I dealing with here? Can I fix this? Yes or no? Do I have to just sit with this and just persevere through it? Yes or no? Is this something that I actually have probably put time into, but the outcome is never going to change and it's never going to be replenishing? Is this something I have to work to let go? To be honest, forgetting is often the part that people struggle with the most because by the time they're making that decision, they've worked really hard to try and change something. And there has to be almost a level of acceptance that this is just. How this is, and it doesn't serve me to pursue. Um, so you know, I again hard things are hard, but if there's a mismatch with how we're dealing with it, you will struggle above and beyond what that stressor actually demands.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Framing the problem, fix it, face it, forget it. Um, I think so many of us treat every problem exactly the same. And that's not true. Every problem isn't exactly the same. You're yes, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Most problems fall into one of these categories. And I think what you're highlighting is exactly right. Most people do what they've always done.

unknown 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

We find ourselves repeating coping for two reasons. One, at some point it worked. Right? Like your example of um using food to cope. At some point it felt good just to eat and not, you know, have to maybe think about or deal with the consequences of that, right? In the same way that, you know, there were periods of time in my life, unfortunately, where watching reruns of friends felt like the thing. It didn't get me through anything, but in the moment it felt really good. And it was it was a way that I was numbing. Um and so temporary. It feels temporary until you've spent an entire Saturday becoming an honorary couch cushion. But I hear you, it is temporary, but you could do that for a very long time. Um, but you know, we we tend to do the things that have worked in the past, even if it's accidental. And our brain works on circuitry. So the more something is repeated, the more reinforced it is, the faster the sequence goes. So without getting too science-y, our neurons in our brain are covered in myelin. That myelin gets thicker, which conducts these currents faster. Every time you do something, the electricity in your brain basically goes faster. So if you have historically had a stressful day and then gotten a drink afterward, you don't even have to think about it. That bottle's waiting for you the second you get home. Um, and you don't even have to think about it. Somehow it's in your hand, right? And so when we are pausing to stop and actually think about what we're about to do, that pause is really important because now you have options. Now you're intentionally responding to something instead of automatically reacting to it. Reaction has no thought. Response is intentional. And that pause that you talk about is so necessary. And the problem is when your brain dollars run out, that window, that pause gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And all of a sudden, now there's not even enough time to think because that costs something. That pause is expensive. It's basically interrupting something that your mind and brain have automatically done for a very long time. Um, but yes, I think, you know, get coming back to what you were saying, people do the same thing over and over. And this introduces some diversity in what they can do.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

And that's the pattern that the brain's the brain loves. The brain loves patterns, whether they're good or bad for you. 100%. But if it knows something and it and it worked at one time, you're right. I've noticed myself, it goes right back to that. That's what I'm constantly fighting, is just old habits, old patterns. People always ask me, how can I pause? What do I need to

The Pause Plus Journaling That Works

SPEAKER_00 25:43

do? And sometimes it's just breathing, but I do want to ask you to speak on journaling because I'm such an advocate for that. And every time I mention this to any client, they just roll their eyes. They do not want to write in a journal. They're like, I'll just speak text it, or I'll just uh use my digital journal. And I always tell them that's fine. Anything will do, it's better than nothing. But let me explain something to you when you are talking. That's why we go to therapy. We speak our emotions and our issues that we're struggling with. And that is a form of uh release, right? That gives us release to talk about our issues. When you actually put pen to paper and write something, that helps us slow down the brains long enough to process what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

So I am someone, talk about accidental coping from the time that I was very young. My favorite thing to always buy wherever I went, if you know, a caregiver said to me, like, oh, you can get something at the drugstore, you can get was always a notebook. And I have been journaling accidentally my whole life. I have journals with like little locks and keys and like sparkles and my whole life. The reason why, and I agree with you, anything is better than just holding everything in mind. But I think part of the reason that journaling is so powerful is twofold. One, from a neuropsychological perspective, writing requires so much more organization and planning and intentional thought than just speaking. Speeding, speaking is in some ways a much more automated process. It does obviously take a lot of like brain resources. However, writing is hard. And to organize and synthesize your thoughts requires multi-level kind of executive functioning, which brings the prefrontal cortex online. Once you pull part of your resources there, thinking becomes a bit more clear than letting it exist in the amygdala, which is like the fear and threat location, right? Which is part of why the uh the you in four for the forward method, that this is where the science is for that, and we could talk about that in a sec. But with journaling, you are putting more of these executive functions online, which makes thought a little bit more clear, a little bit more organized, a little bit more synthesized into um it it just helps you organize thought better instead of it just being about expression. Um, the other thing that I recently heard someone say, which I think is also true, there's something very powerful about seeing your thoughts outside of your head that gives it distance. And I think when we are in the middle of a storm, and this is for the you section of the forward method, if you're in the middle of a storm, you're just wet. You just feel uncomfortable, you're just cold, you're just, you're, you're just in it too far. You need something to pull you out a little bit so that you can have a better understanding of where to go and where you've been. And I think that's often the hard thing about these difficult seasons of life. You don't know how through a situation you are until you're out of it. And with journaling, I think it's a way to understand yourself where you're not running on fear and anxiety alone. It's actually giving you a way to understand and create almost like a map for yourself along the way. The other thing I also recommend to all my patients is to every few months go back and reread what you've written. I think sometimes there's a lot of insight in patterns and how we think and see things that again, you don't understand you're even writing. Um, but then there's often like these thematic arc arcs that kind of can reveal themselves when you reread journal entries later on. Um, so I think it, I think it's a practice that is incredibly useful. I also know that it's very expensive cognitively. If I'm in like the worst times of my life, I resist writing. It's just it's but once you get yourself into the rhythm, then because it's more familiar, it's less expensive and you can do it more easily. But um yeah, journaling is it should, it feels like it shouldn't be as helpful as it actually is.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Right. Validifying what I've been saying all along about journaling. But how many brain dollars would it cost for me to, you know, write something that I'm upset about? But then, but then I think I gain dollars back because I'll reflect two weeks back and then look at everything that's been happening since then and and identify the issue or the the pattern that I need to start working on because sometimes we don't recognize these patterns that are happening or the reason. And who remembers what they were feeling two weeks ago? I know. Not me. Yeah. So I think it's very helpful. I also it's worth the dollars, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Absolutely. I think you know, a way to think about it, um, if we're gonna quantify it, I'm a nerd in that way. Um, if you're gonna sit down to journal, it might cost you 25 brain dollars to sit there. And to feel like you want to do that at the top of the day might feel really expensive. But if you don't journal that day, holding all that stuff in your mind will cost you maybe 50 over the course of the day. Now it might feel like less because it's like a dollar or two dollars every hour. It's not the 25 up front, but over the course of the day, it might cost you less overall to just journal at the beginning. So you're not holding as much for so long. And so these are the decisions when we're thinking about how to invest. This would be an investment, right? We're still spending money, but you're not going to just be draining it, holding something. This is actually a way to have a lower cost overall, even if the upfront cost feels a little greater.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah, the ROI. What's the ROI of this investment? Yeah.

Perspective, Outlook, And The Grief Story

SPEAKER_00 32:22

You've also said uh perspective is power. And often that's our biggest obstacle, right? Not the situation itself, but the story we've been telling ourselves about it forever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

I think um it's a tricky balance because I think a lot of the messaging we get is that being positive um and being optimistic is the perspective that gets us through. And the reality is not everything works out. So personally, I've really struggled with that advice because the hardest things that I've experienced in my life didn't work out. Both my parents died by the time I was 25. I knew both of them. It wasn't like I I, you know, not to say that this is any easier, but I knew my parents before they passed away. It wasn't like I came into a world where one of them was already missing. And so I was a young adult when I lost both. I went on in family planning to have multiple losses before having my daughter. Um, and the thing with loss is that it compounds. So you experience one, when you have the second one, it triggers the first one on top of the other one. And so, in so many ways, without even realizing, I was telling myself a story of loss my whole life because that was in so many ways the focus. And so, and those sit, I mean, I can make the argument that like it worked out with my daughter, and I would do it all a hundred times over to have her exactly as she is. But those other pregnancies didn't work out, and I don't have my parents here today. And I think the idea of just being optimistic and just being positive is it can be a hard pill to swallow. But then this brings us to the O in the forward method, which is outlook. With perspective, you have you have two things to try and do. You have to be open to all the options, and you have to be aware that you will overcome. You don't have to feel like you will. That's a feeling. Feelings are not facts. I know that's rich coming from a therapist, however, feelings are there to guide us and to let us know how we are perceiving and being impacted by the world. The reality is you are built to overcome. And if you allow yourself to be open to the options, all of them, then I think you can make better decisions about what you can do and what you can't. I think the second part of perspective is the you, which is understanding. You're going to be understanding from outside of yourself, right? So we talked about earlier how the amygdala, the part of your brain that is in charge of like letting you know when there's threat and fear and things to avoid and things to be um stressed out about. When that comes online, your prefrontal cortex, the front of your brain, it doesn't go offline. There are no parts of your brain that go offline, but it's not as activated. So I want you to imagine that it's like the same thing as like having a speaker with a microphone on stage, and then you have an audience member that's having a conversation with the person next to them. Yeah, that's annoying. However, someone across the room cannot hear that conversation. Right. What we want to do is give that person a mic. That's the prefrontal cortex. So, with understanding, the way that we broaden our perspective so that it's not just be scared, run, be worried, stress out. What you want to do is you want to read books, you want to listen to podcasts, you want to um listen to other people that have been through what you've been through and how did they get through it? What was helpful for them? We tell ourselves a story, especially in the part of the world that I live in, which is the tri-state area. We tell ourselves a story that we're the only person who's ever had the problem we've ever had. And then we try to get through things alone, and it's harder that way. And there are many people, probably smart people, that have had the same experience that have written about it or talked about it, that we would really benefit from. And so by pulling in that outside information, you're giving the mic to that person in the audience who has something important to say, which is clear thinking, broader perspective, comprehensive decision making. That prefrontal part of the of our of our brain is going to help you think about the situation, not just from anxiety and fear, but from all the options that you have available to you. And I think that's that that's what can the perspective you need to have is that I can overcome this and I'm open to the different options that are here. And then the way to help your brain do that is by giving it outside information and understanding.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Yes. I always refer to the lower brain as the caveman. It helps me remember. And the frontal cortex, the front part of the brain is the CEO. You know, that makes these decisions, smart decisions, wise decisions for the overall whole part of your body. That's my little trick, is just to say, oh, I gotta quiet the caveman. Let's bring out the CEO. Yeah. I really found interesting about your message is that you mention hard things don't automatically make us stronger. And I think we've all grown up believing exactly the opposite. I mean, I know I have. And but I never did understand why people would always say, Oh, I'm so sorry about your childhood, how horrible. But you know, it's it's made you really a lot stronger because you went through that. But I don't look at it like that. I mean, there were times I was surviving and I had to be strong, but there are but I think it overall it weakened me as an adult because I didn't understand. I I hadn't been curious yet, I wasn't aware, you know, what I was carrying. Even though on the outside I appeared to be very strong, but I think that's just survival. I completely agree.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

I um I think when people offer platitudes like that, they mean well. And it's very uncomfortable, I think, for people to sit in the idea that there isn't like a silver lining to pain. I think people try to make meaning somewhat superficially in that way. I to my core believe that no matter how much someone has struggled or is struggling, they are truly doing the best they can with what they have in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

And I can also tell you that I have worked with people who have been through unimaginable things. And I've seen how those experiences will either become their identity or it'll be utilized for strength and perspective.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yes, and pain using pain for purpose.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

And it's not automatic. No, you have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

You have to reframe your thinking.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Yes, and you have to figure out how to also create distance with the thing that happened, otherwise we carry it forward in the timeline as if it's still happening a lot of the time. Um and I think when it comes to really difficult experiences, pain is often inevitable, but having it change or delete you as the person you are does not have to happen. And I think that comes from challenging the stories you tell yourself, right? Because there are parts of your brain, like the amygdala, that are going to create a story very quickly of like this was good, this was bad, avoid this in the future, do this, and you'll you'll never have to feel this again. And the problem is some of the things we've experienced are very context specific. Not every family is going to be dysfunctional just because that was your experience growing up.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

For me, not everyone you love is going to die, even though you've never you don't have a memory in your life of not anticipating grief. Right? Like our stories become the the lens through which we see everything. So in order to keep pain from just being pain and fear, we have to evaluate the stories we've told ourselves about experiences and you have to extract the lessons. So, for example, and I often help people understand, that doesn't mean you have to be grateful for the bad thing that happened. You can, you can appreciate how it has made you stronger in the ways you've intentionally done so. You can have gratitude for the perspective you have, but you don't have to be grateful they happen. I am not grateful, I don't have my parents.

unknown 41:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

But the perspective I have now on life and time is invaluable to me. Yeah. I have made really hard decisions in my life because I am not willing to tolerate excess pain if I don't need to. That is a lesson that I've helped, that has helped me move forward stronger. But that was earned. That was earned after almost hard work, almost a decade of really unhealthy coping after my mom passed. So my dad died when I was 20, my mom died when she was when I was 25. And for almost 10 years, for about eight years, I just pushed through that grief, didn't deal with it, didn't manage it, and then woke up in 2020 in the pandemic when the the cost of brain dollars was so high. My caseload was sicker than ever. I mean, we're all going through a mental health breakdown. And then, you know, we all have social isolation now. The world feels like it's on fire, right? Like we're all just bleeding through that brain dollar bank. I I didn't have the money anymore to keep pushing the grief away. And then that's when you, right? So this is how insidiously we get to the point where it's like, oh my God, what have I been doing? I've been making a choice every day to not deal with this thing, and it's been costing me. And now I have to deal with it. And it wasn't until eight years after my mom died that I started to make lessons and meaning out of that pain. Because up until then, it was just pain. I was not stronger because that happened. I was just in pain because it had.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

That's the perfect example. And I'm so sorry that you had to go through that too. But I find a lot of times when our issues, our struggles is becoming, we're letting it identify us. It's in everything we decide to do, it's who we feel we are. And a lot of times when you first realize this and you start working on changing these unhealthy patterns and behaviors, because when you realize it, but then there's a fear. Who am I without this thing? Who am I once it's gone? I have no clue. Sometimes I think we hang on to that because it feels familiar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

And somewhere it's probably become a story that it's keeping you safe. It's keeping you from being vulnerable in other ways. Um I think that's absolutely right. And I think I think identity is such a fluid thing. Um where I know people talk about it a lot these days, more with regard to gender and sexuality, but I think trauma does the same thing for people where I don't know that there's like a singular authentic self for anyone, but I do know that experiences that we have will highlight or detract from certain things about us that we can move toward or from. And I think that's kind of what you're describing, where um the stories that we tell ourselves and the experiences that we have have a way of coloring how we view life, how we view ourselves, what we anticipate, what we think we can have, who we think we are. Um and it can, it can be a lot of work to break that down. And it can be very uh there's a lot of bravery that needs to come with letting old stories go that don't serve us anymore.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Exactly. It takes courage. You shared for years that you were functioning, achieving, living life while carrying grief.

Surviving Isn’t Healing, Then What?

SPEAKER_00 45:42

You really hadn't processed, you explained that a little bit to us about your parents for eight years. What happened for you to realize that surviving wasn't the same thing as healing? I don't know that it was overnight.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

I think that um there were there were tells over the years. Um, you know, for example, my mom passed away in October. I would say for the month of October for eight years. I mean, downtime was spent sleeping. Talk about exhaustion, right? Being completely energyless. Um, Mother's Day would roll around, be completely inconsolable. Um, you know, going to family functions and not realizing why it seemed like I couldn't keep the alcohol count low enough. Right. So over time there were little things.

unknown 46:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

You fast forward to 2020 and the pandemic hits. And now the cost of living brain dollar-wise, is so high to make room for quarantine and lockdown. And so much of my family is in the medical field. So the fear of them being there, do they have PPE? Like, what is COVID actually versus the clickbait that we're seeing online, all the things. I was running out of brain dollars. And I started noticing that at the end of like my, so I'm working harder than ever at this point. My practice takes off because everyone's sick and you know, and I'm also experiencing the same thing everyone else is. But I start realizing like, oh, at the end of every day, I'm starting to fantasize about having a drink. Or I'm starting to drink like eat a lot and I'm not hungry. Um, my husband and I are fighting a lot over dumb stuff. Um that dopamine you want. I mean, just a hit from anything. And um, I remember one day in an argument, just bursting out crying, just saying that people don't realize how hard I was struggling. And I hadn't said that out loud, and I don't even think I had actively thought it. Um, but then through there, you know, I started actually reflecting on like, man, like when I think about myself 10 years ago, I don't do any of the same things anymore. Like, I'm not reading books anymore. Like I love to read, like I don't read books anymore. I'm barely listening to music ever. I don't journal anymore, right? Like the list of things that like were me, I realized in that moment were not there. And of course, like through my own research, and you know, I got myself a therapist and the whole thing. Um, you know, that was, I'm not saying everyone has to go to therapy, but for me in that particular moment, I needed to kind of work through all of these things. And so again, I don't know that it was like an overnight aha moment. I think it took a moment where I had nothing left to be like, what is going on? And it took a pause to actually reflect and think and be like, I don't recognize the person that's here anymore. And I think I've been lying to myself about what I've done with this incredibly difficult thing. Because I thought I had gotten over it. I had actually just not even stepped in it.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Gosh, I can so relate to that very much so. But thank you for sharing it with us because it really helps listeners to hear that you have lived through something similar that they're going through. You know, and I tell people all the time, I mean, I'm a web designer by trade. You're in mental health, you're a professional, and you still struggle. But I I really think that that helps people feel better. Not there's nothing wrong with you. It's just you have some things you need to work out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

And I think for me, it was almost infuriating that, you know, I'd gone to school for so many years and somehow this had happened to me. That how in the world was I so good at doing this with other people and I couldn't even identify for myself. But the mind is tricky that way. The mind will do what it can to avoid pain if you're not careful because it's uncomfortable. And processing that grief would have had to, it required me to accept and also let go in a way that I on some level, you know, not by an act of choice, but on some level, that pain kept me close to my mom. And so not having that allowed parts of her go. And I wasn't ready to do that. And um, so yeah, I think when we go through hard things in life, resilience is not about feeling strong all the time. It's knowing you're capable of doing things that require strength. And I think reminding yourself that you are capable of being strong and you're capable of overcoming, I think that's like the most powerful thing you hold.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

It really is. Which brings me to you challenge another belief I think a lot of people carry that you know, pushing through is always the answer. Um, but what does deliberate recovery actually look like? Because I don't think many of us were ever taught that.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

No, I would argue many of us, most of us, were not taught how to do this in a practical way or a sustainable way. So the three categories that we talked about when we framed the problem fix, face, forget, when we push through, that's essentially facing. So we face and we persevere through things that we are intentionally choosing to tolerate the discomfort for because there's a good goal attached. The reason why that doesn't work is that there are certain things that you could push through forever and it would do nothing but just drain the bank. It's not actually ever going to come to an end. There's not a good goal attached to it, and it's just gonna burn you out or make you kind of mentally unhealthy over time.

unknown 52:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

I love that. Let's imagine someone listening right now realizes, you know what, I think I've just been surviving, and I don't know if I've really been living my life the way that would help me feel joy. Where would you encourage them to begin today?

SPEAKER_01 52:22

I think it's about creating the pause. It's creating the moment where you are going to reflect honestly and you are going to allow yourself the O to be open to all the things you uncover. I think we are often pretty guarded about changing too much or too quickly. And I think if you're in a position where you're feeling like something's not right, the equilibrium in my life doesn't feel right, hasn't felt right in a long time. I think I'm just pushing through. I feel like I'm just surviving. I'm not living anymore. I'm just surviving my life. I think taking a moment to do an inventory of the things you're holding is going to be, you know, it's kind of like when people are like, you don't even know how many subscriptions you're paying for. This is the same thing, right? How many, how many subscriptions for stress and disconnection and um discomfort are we signed up for? And how many of those are we willing to end? And how many of those things do we actually have to like face and fix? Um, and so I think finding a moment to do an inventory of your life and then truly mapping out for yourself what are the things that are serving you to hold and what are the things that would be better to let go of. I think it really becomes an exercise in prioritizing your cognitive spending. With, you know, I think we all kind of move through life thinking that we can just push our minds to do more and more and more. And the reality is you will quietly lose yourself over time if you just keep spending without considering that it's got to come from somewhere. And so I think reflection is really important. I think taking inventory of your life is really important. And then again, you are not the first person to have whatever problem you're up against. Find the people who have talked about it, who have shared about it, who have found things that are helpful about it. Again, it doesn't mean everything's gonna work out exactly the way you thought it once it would. But holding discomfort for a long time is sometimes worse than a bad outcome.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

I call it quiet depletion, but it really does affect your health, your physical health, your mental health. It will take a toll if you don't. Absolutely. Your body will tell you. Yeah. Yeah.

Taking The Method Beyond Therapy

SPEAKER_00 54:58

So you have been a clinician, a researcher, and now a keynote speaker. Those are three very different worlds. What made you realize this message needed to leave the therapy room and reach audiences on a much bigger stage? To be honest, it was my daughter.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

I think um I shared earlier that the perspective I've gained through losing my parents so young has afforded me the unique privilege of valuing my time and prioritizing happiness in a way that from time to time, not every day, but a few times a year I do ask myself dil deliberately, are we happy? Are we feeling connected? What needs change? What feels good? And there's something about having her that has tipped my motivation for pursuing happiness in a way that I don't think anything else ever would have because of what she's brought me. And I know that we went through a lot to have her. And so even though it's a different kind of effort and work now to try and get this going, because I have a very full practice and I love working with individuals, there's something here that has always connected with people that has felt meaningful and has helped people move through very difficult times of their life. And if there's a way for me to connect with more people in a way that offers them a little bit of a roadmap to get through these moments and to get through these seasons, then that feels like an amazing investment of time. And this is something that I really enjoy. And it also continues to give my pain purpose where whatever I've been through, the strength I have earned from it, this is where I'm now putting it.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

You know, that speaks volumes of the person you are. Thank God. I mean, that is beautiful and hopeful. And it's so wonderful that there are people in this world that still want to help others. And I'll tell you, people think it's the most selfless thing, and it is, but it's also very healing to help someone else, to give to them what you've learned. I don't know about you, but that's how it feels to me. I always say kindness. Kindness is like a superpower. You know, it helps the giver and the receiver. Um, so tell us how to find your work and tell us how we can be with you on your journey as you go.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

Uh, my website is www.drvanessaonline.com. And I try to have a couple of posts on LinkedIn every week. So on all socials, it's at Dr. Vanessa Online. Um, you know, feel free to find me there for uh new content and new kind of visuals to bring to life some of the things that we've talked about here today. Um, and if you're interested in me speaking to your organization or groups um for work or community, um, please find me on my website.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

Up to me, if you oh my gosh. So we're gonna have all of that in the show notes.

Final Takeaways And Disclaimer

SPEAKER_00 58:23

Dr. Vanessa, thank you. One thing I kept thinking about throughout this conversation is that so often we judge ourselves for how we're responding without ever stopping to understand what we're carrying. And today you reminded us that awareness isn't weakness, it's wisdom. And maybe that's where resilience really begins. Not by pretending life isn't hard and not by pushing through another day, but by honestly asking ourselves, what kind of hard is this? Because once we understand the problem, we finally have a chance to respond instead of simply react. So if today's conversation touched you or you think someone you know could use this episode, I hope you'll spend a little time with it and share it with those that might need it. Not rushing to fix yourself, not making another promise you'll never keep, just becoming a little more curious. Curious about what your mind has been trying to protect, and curious about what your heart might still need and the possibility that you don't have to navigate the hard parts of life the way you've always done it. That's where change begins, not in perfection or in awareness. Until next time, be kind to yourself, give yourself a little grace, pick up where you left off, and keep moving one intentional step at a time. I'll see y'all next week. Thanks again, Dr. Vanessa. We appreciate you so much. Thank you. Hey, it's me, Pam, and before we go, just a quick reminder. Everything we share here is meant to encourage, educate, and get you thinking. But it's not a substitute for professional mental health, medical, legal, financial, or any other licensed advice. I'm simply someone who's walking through life, learning right alongside you. And I'm grateful we get to learn together. Always seek the guidance of a qualified professional for your unique situation. Thanks for spending this time with us. Until next time, remember sometimes the biggest change begins with one small pause. I'll see you on the next episode of Delay the Binge.