She Thought Cancer Was Punishment, Then Everything Changed | Jennifer Greenhut

Jennifer Greenhut was diagnosed with Stage 4 triple-negative breast cancer and faced the possibility that her life might be cut short.

Instead of asking, "Why is this happening to me?" she began asking a different question:

"What's in this for me?"

That shift changed everything.

In this episode of Delay the Binge™, Jennifer shares how cancer became an unexpected awakening, teaching her about gratitude, trust, receiving love, and finding purpose through pain.

We discuss:
 • Stage 4 breast cancer and survival
 • The power of perspective
 • Caregiver support and burnout
 • Receiving help when you're used to giving it
 • Gratitude during difficult seasons
 • The Pinch Me Method
 • Finding meaning in life's hardest moments

Connect with Jennifer Greenhut

❤️ The Zero Negative Foundation
 www.zeronegativefoundation.org

👜 Love, Zero Negative
 www.lovezeronegative.com

📖 Everyone Needs a Larry
 Available on Amazon

📸 Instagram
 @jenngreenhut

If this conversation encouraged you, share it with someone who needs hope, perspective, or a reminder that they are not alone.

Transcript

A Different Way To Face Hardship

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Today's conversation might completely change the way you experience hardship. Because what if the thing you're fighting against becomes the thing that wakes you up to your life? My guest today was diagnosed with stage four, triple negative breast cancer, y'all. And what happened next completely changed the way she saw suffering, love, gratitude, trust, and even healing itself. And somewhere in the middle of the chaos, fear, and uncertainty, she discovered one question that changed everything. Welcome back to the Delay the Binge podcast. I'm Pam Dwyer, best-selling author, speaker, and creator of Delay the Binge, where we explore the pause, the patterns underneath our behaviors, and what it means to become who you were always meant to be. And lately, one thing I've been thinking deeply about is this. A lot of people know how to survive, but they don't know how to stay connected to themselves afterward. They know how to push through, perform, hold everything together, but maintenance after change, living after survival mode, learning how to evolve without losing yourself again, that's a different kind of healing. And today's guest embodies that so beautifully. Today's guest is Jennifer Greenhut. Jen is a stage four triple negative breast cancer survivor, author of Everyone Needs a Larry, and founder of Love Zero Negative and the Zero Negative Foundation. Her work is rooted in one powerful belief. You may not get to choose what happens to you, but you can choose how you experience it. After her diagnosis, Jen discovered a single question that shifted everything for her, opening the door to what she now calls our true superpowers: love, gratitude, and trust. Today she creates products and programs, supporting patients and caregivers, helping people feel less alone and more connected through storytelling, mindset shifts, and perspective. Jen, I'm so honored you're here with us today. Welcome, welcome.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Thank you for having me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Before we dive into deeper parts of the story,

Building Support For Caregivers

SPEAKER_03 2:22

I would actually love to start with you today. What feels most meaningful in your life right now, and what have you been doing?

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Today, uh I am super excited about where my foundation's going, the Zero Negative Foundation, because we have been focused on supporting patients through a program called the ChemoLepto program, which I love. And we're expanding to support caregivers now because we truly are seeing that the caregivers are the ones that are like really taking care of everything and no one's taking care of them. And it's uh really caregiver burnout. Um, families go down when the caregiver goes down. So we're developing a program that will be specifically able to grant families and caregivers like money to help pay for treatment or to help buy groceries or for transportation or for child care. The small financial burdens that sometimes really add up and create so much stress. We're hoping to just really take care of some families that way. So I'm super excited about that. Uh, we started planning our fundraiser at the comedy store this year in November. So um we're gonna be looking for some good comedians. And uh the one other thing I'm excited about is a TED talk. I'm doing a TED Talk in June. Oh, congratulations. And I'm starting like it's now a month basically that we have. And I've known for about six months. And so now the last month is kind of like, let's nail it, let's get it, let's tweak it. So that's my focus the next month.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Oh my goodness, Jen. That's amazing. You're getting that message out on a bigger scale, on a bigger stage. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

So yeah, it's been on my bucket list for a while.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

So and I love what you're doing for caregivers. I took care of my mom for the last 10 years of her life.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

And let me tell you, I can relate to what you're saying. The caregiver is really underappreciated.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah, it really is. And um, we're gonna come up with some programs like retreats and um wellness programs that kind of just will build community and just a way of sharing and feeling seen and supported. And I think it's just about like knowing you're not alone. Yeah. And uh yeah, I'm excited for that because, you know, as the patient being diagnosed, you don't want to be a patient, but the caregiver doesn't want to be the caregiver either, just as much as the patient doesn't want to be the patient. So we're cast into these roles. We need each other. Yeah. My husband needed me to live. I needed him to kind of take care of me and make sure I lived. So, you know, we both have different jobs, but it's like we have the same mission.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

Pretty important stuff. And a lot of times, I wrote a story once on one of my short stories, and it was called Help Hurts. And what I experienced going through poverty and abuse growing up is that a lot of times people will smile, just say, here's here's some food and then walk away. Or even write a check, here's some money, and then walk away. But what we really needed was number one, was our dignity. But number two, was someone just to take the time to sit with us and say, okay, you obviously don't know how to manage your money, so I'm gonna sit here and help you and look at this and we can figure it out together.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

I think that's what you're creating is people that can help caregivers understand and also be able to share their feelings and what they're going through. I mean, that's a lot, a lot, and there's not enough support for them. So I'm so excited what you're doing. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Yeah, we're excited. And we'll be collaborating with some bigger organizations that are um having a lot of families that we can take care of. So love

The Day Stage Four Became Real

SPEAKER_02 6:28

it.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

You have you have such a peaceful energy about you. But your story, I was reading about your story, and it begins, it seems like, in absolute chaos. Can you do you mind sharing uh your story with us? Take us back there for a moment.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Uh so I'll take you back to the very beginning of the story, this particular story.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Not the beginning of my life. So that probably was dramatic, too. But um, so this story started. I'll say it was the worst day of my life, but it wasn't the worst day of my life was when I am just starting the process of looking for oncologists. I've been diagnosed with stage two, basically. Everyone's saying it's stage two. I'm looking for oncologists and thinking everything's gonna be okay. And one, the first oncologist, we pull into the parking lot and we're in a rush. It's my mom, my sister, and my husband, and me. We're late. My husband, gentlemen, he's like, get out of the car, I'll park the car, I'll meet you upstairs. So we pull into the parking lot, I get out of the car, my sister gets out of the car, my mom sort of gets out of the car. My husband runs over her foot. We all scream. My gosh. We all scream, she screams, then he stops, and then all of a sudden, he's now backing over her foot. So already this day has not started out good. My husband ran over my mom's foot. Here's my mom saying, Jen, go up to the doctor, you're late. I'm like, Mom, you just got run over by my husband. She's like, I'll be okay, just go. So my sister and I are upstairs with the oncologist. He just goes over like how he's gonna treat my breast cancer. It's curable, but we're all waiting for this PET scan to come back. He comes back, he puts the PET scan on the frame and he points to something. He's like, Do you see this? Your cancer is spread to bone, it's stage four.

unknown 8:36

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

And he had just told me stage four is incurable, and there's like a 12% chance of living. I'm like, didn't you just say stage four is incurable? He's like, We'll treat it as best we can. He walks out of the office, I start crying, I grab my sister's hand, and all of a sudden we hear like chaos in the hallway, and then we see Larry, and he's now pushing my mom in a wheelchair. He's screaming for help for her. I'm realizing I'm gonna die. I just realize that I've never even appreciated my life, and then I'm thinking, that guy is gonna be my caregiver. Like this cannot end well, no matter how you look at it. So that was the beginning of the best journey of my life that did not start well. Oh my gosh. The first um two weeks of my journey, I really felt like I was going to die, but I kept praying. I'm like, I'm like, I gotta figure out how to live because I don't want to live in this story that I'm dying. I'll backtrack a little bit how I understand the

IVF Loss And The Worthiness Story

SPEAKER_02 9:52

stories. So before my diagnosis, a year and a half, I was married to Larry, and I was really excited because we're gonna have a baby. I'm gonna start this family chapter, motherhood, because I really believed I was supposed to be a mom. Three rounds into IVF, and none of them worked. And now I'm like really depressed. I'm thinking, what's wrong with me? Life hates me, I'm a failure, blah, blah, blah. I'm in this like real bad state. Then I'm diagnosed with stage four cancer. And I'm asking, like, why is this happening to me? And I'm answering, well, you're a failure. You failed. Life is kicking you out because you were given a certain amount of time here. You failed. Let's, you know, get out. You're not worthy of being alive. And at the same time, I'm realizing I never even lived like all my life I spent looking at what I didn't have instead of what I did have. And I realized in that moment, oh my God, I had so much. I can't even believe I just stopped. I just didn't appreciate being alive. So I start praying. I'm like, please let me do over, do over. Show me to the right doctor, and I promise I will give back forever. And I was asking for help. So I realized I had planted the seed. Please help me. I was looking for something. The first, I had three doctor appointments, and the first two felt wrong because they were all about, you know, we'll treat you as best as

The Moment Everything Flipped

SPEAKER_02 11:25

we can, but this is not gonna end the way you want it to. The third doctor at UCLA, he's not promising, I'm gonna live. He's just saying, here's how we're gonna treat you chemo, double mastectomy, radiation, more surgeries, and we're gonna have to remove your ovaries, he said. I'm so sorry, Jen. You're never gonna have a baby. But I want you to know if you had gotten pregnant, that pregnancy would have killed you. And in that moment, it was like I had a transformation experience with the universe pinching me, saying, Jen, we've been protecting you this whole time. You're being saved. And everything in your life has worked out perfectly. And in my mind, I'm like, wait, if everything has worked out perfectly, everything still is working out perfectly. And stage four cancer is working out perfectly. So I understood. I walked in and felt cancer was punishing me, and I walked out and saw cancer as a gift. And that complete perception changed everything. Like I felt so loved and supported with stage four cancer. It was like a present from God. So I was like, I'm gonna love everything, I'm gonna have gratitude for every day that I have, not knowing how this is gonna end. And I'm gonna trust that it's all working out. And even if death is death, I'm still gonna love every day that I'm gonna be here. Four months later, I was cancer free. So it was like, I mean, I can't. It was just such an amazing experience. And it was also like so scary. And you know, it didn't make anything easier, like going through treatment was still hard, but there was like a purpose to it. And I really truly believed stage four cancer was happening for a reason. And the reason wasn't to kill me.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Oh my gosh, you are speaking my language. First of all, you shouldn't this there this should be a movie because it's so devastating when you hear this news that you have cancer stage four. I'm sure, like with me, whenever I hear bad news, it's like everything just slows down like in slow motion.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

And then with this numb thing, it's like your your brain is trying to protect you because you're overwhelmed. Did you feel that?

SPEAKER_02 13:51

I felt like, well, it was just like I felt like I was in the twilight zone in a way where I started pinching myself because I thought it was a bad dream. Like it was so unreal to me. I was like, this has to be a bad dream. And I it wasn't. It was I was pinching myself and I was waking up to the reality that, oh my God, I'm dying. Yeah, like I couldn't, it was the worst realization. And depression set in right away because I felt so powerless. But I also felt I didn't understand anything because I never got sick. I never even thought I'd die of anything. Like I was a very strong immune system, everything. And so the fact that I was fine a week ago and now I have stage four cancer and I'm going to die, it just I couldn't, I couldn't understand it. And so that was even scarier, not understanding like life doesn't mean anything. My life is just gonna be gone. And everything I kind of believed in about like, you know, we're here for a reason and gifts and like it's special and we're growing and evolving, like none of it meant anything. You're wrong. Life is life, and then you're dead. And that was really scary.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like if you don't have that kind of hope or light, it does get really dark quickly. Yeah. And and I so love that you are actually learned that you can use pain for purpose. That's my whole message revolves around that. My whole everything that happened to me in my past was horrible. But I see now why I had to go through that. And you had the same awakening. I call it an awakening. It's like when you finally realize the thing that you thought was so devastating and was so unfair that it happened for a reason. And when you see it, what the reason is, it just becomes very clear all of a sudden what you need to do. Do you feel like that too? Like it just once you realized, okay, now I see why this has happened, did you did it become very clear that you needed to share the message and help others going through the same thing?

SPEAKER_02 16:03

I was um I was figuring it out really quickly. And

Purpose As A Form Of Healing

SPEAKER_02 16:10

by the third round of chemo, I my doctor, my who I was after chemo, I was going in for a checkup every after every round, and he was like, Where are the tumors? I can't find them. Like he's like, Where are they? And I was just like, we were both so happy to, but I was like, I'm just I'm loving, I'm loving them. I'm loving everything. Like everything is just so amazing. You're amazing. And and uh I I was like, I gotta figure out how to start something right away. And I was like, where can I give back to your research team? And like I just started a company, like my friend had this bag that said love. I'm gonna make these bags and I'm gonna like spread love and give back to cancer research. And I kind of started a company during chemo, which was not the brightest thing to do. But that's how like like enthusiastic I was and just so believing I was gonna be okay. And um that belief really, I guess, got me through and excited. You know, it's kind of like you you feel like you're gonna die, and then all of a sudden you're like, I'm not gonna die. And then I really believed I wasn't gonna die. So it's just like you're born again.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Yes. This podcast has just opened my eyes because I keep speaking to people just like you, that they feel like what happened to them was terrible, but then they see that they're like, okay, so how can I use this? What's in it for me? There was another woman I interviewed, and she had uh stage four breast cancer, and she started a podcast from her chemo chair. Mm-hmm. And it's still to this day very successful. And her view was that because she had purpose, because she realized that she needed to be making a difference, building something for others, you know, that she feels strongly that that's what healed her. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

You know, and and there is also like for me, I think life might I mean, just like the worst case scenario, I'm gonna die. You want to do everything you can while you're here, you know? Mm-hmm. To be remembered. Yeah, I mean, I felt like that's why I was here. But I'm I'm I have a personality, like I love helping people, you know, or supporting people, or, you know, doing something that will leave the world a better place. I've always been like that. I know that not everyone is like that, and that's okay too. You know, I've just always been like that.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

You have that strand I always call it. I don't I'm not sure what your faith is, but I'm a Christian. But I always say everyone has a strand, just a tiny strand of God in them, and that is your gift. And it it just wants to be recognized. It'll be loud, loud, loud. No matter what path you take, your strand is going to be speaking to you to tap into it. When you finally do, wow, you feel complete.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Yeah, it you feel aligned and like you're here. You found your gift, like why you're here, because everybody has a gift and they're all different, and we're all so special.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Yes, yes, so much. And everyone has this light. Now I noticed over and over, and I wanted to make sure and ask you, um,

Perfection Training And Self Love

SPEAKER_03 19:35

that you realized you had been seeing everything backwards, I think is how you said it. And and so what did what did you mean by that backwards?

SPEAKER_02 19:44

So backwards meaning I thought life was against me because I didn't get what I wanted. If I I didn't get what I thought I was supposed to do was have a baby and be a mom and you know, raise kids, and I thought finally I was gonna everything was working out. You know, like I I felt life was hard, you know, like life was a struggle, and I never felt worthy. You know, I grew up as an athlete and a gymnast. I left home at 14 to train for the Olympics, and my life was all about being perfect and structure and discipline and hard work and not crying, you know, and being strong and tough. So my life from the inside was like just trying to feel worthy, you know, and get the scores and be loved for what we achieve and our performance. So I thought I took those lessons into my life. Like life was judging me all the time, you know, and if things were working out, that was because I did something good, you know. It wasn't just because I am okay being who I am. So I felt like I was always trying to like just perform and prove that I'm here for a reason. I'm lovable. And so that's what I mean about like life all that like life wasn't that hard. You know, life was just trying really to show me that self-love and loving myself and is the most important thing.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

That is so beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Yeah, and I beautiful. And so what's interesting is that my story around gymnastics, I chose gymnastics, it was something I wanted to do. I wanted to go to the Olympics, and but I didn't learn self love. So fast forward a few decades later, I still don't have self love, but I have that discipline to go through treatment, and I'm that strong. I'm Not training for the Olympics, I'm training for my life. And my body got through chemo treatment so easily. You know, I had this like tunnel vision. I'm gonna do it. And it was almost like gymnastics gave me something, like a superpower to get through treatment. And also cancer came for me to heal something that gymnastics didn't give me. So it's like that full circle.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Gosh, that's amazing. That's very profound. That's a message we all need to absorb. You know, we all do it, but women especially were striving for excellence. Always. I it's drilled into us early, as early as five years old. Yeah that, you know, you must strive to be the best of the best at whatever it is you choose to do. I mean, I remember, you know my family telling me, if you clean toilets, you just make sure it's the cleanest one in the world. So I mean, it's drilled into us early, early that, you know, to be exceptional.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Yeah, we want we're funny. My dad used to say that too. Did he?

SPEAKER_03 23:09

You're a helicopter pilot, be the best helicopter pilot. We just we want to please, we want to live up to all the expectations because we believe that's that's true, that we need to do that. But then life can happen, cancer can happen, and it kind of changes your perspective a little. We

Finding The Pause In Crisis

SPEAKER_03 23:30

talk a lot on this show about a pause, and it's that tiny little space between fear and reaction, and between pain and coping, between despair and perspective. So listening to your story, it feels like you found that pause in the middle of a crisis. Do you think that's true?

SPEAKER_02 23:52

I do. The pause found me, let's say that. I didn't find it, it found me in that moment at the doctor's office when my story changed in the one moment, you know, when everything was being rewound and everything I thought was actually the other thing. And realizing that the energy within me shifted so much with that knowing. And so from that moment in the doctor's office and that knowing of the pause, like we have a choice in how we want to react with what's happening, you know. So the pinch came when I found out I had stage four cancer. So I'm pinching myself, which woke me up to reality. Then the other pinch came when the universe is pinching me. Jen, life is working out perfectly. We got you. So then it became okay, this pinch me method, when we are hit with something, because life pinches us, we have a choice, and it's that pause to ask why me or what's in this for me. And that is the power that we have. And that changes our experience with what we're going to experience. And I truly believe, like when you ask that question, what's in this for me? You're gonna find something that's gonna work for you. When you ask, you know, why is this happening to me? That's feels like you're going to find all the things to complain about. And it just it's so empowering when you can really understand that we're in charge. We're not in charge with what's happening to us. We're in charge of what we want to make and how we want to go through what's happening to us. And that changes everything.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

It so does. Anger is not a sin. It's what you do with it. That is that can be good or bad. You can use it like energy to move, propel you forward to do good things. If you're angry, you just need to learn how to use it. And so I'm sure gratitude, you speak a lot on gratitude. And how on earth did gratitude enter the room during something so terrifying? How did you trust, actually trust life when everything feels so uncertain?

Trusting Treatment And Choosing Gratitude

SPEAKER_02 26:31

I think it was easier to trust than not to trust. Because when you when I trusted, I, you know, I took my time to find the doctor. And when I chose this doctor, I thought God was always choosing him too, with me, you know. And so I was choosing this is how who I want to give my physical body to to take care of physically. And I consciously knew I'm gonna trust the treatment plan. I'm never gonna argue. He's gonna, he knows what he's doing. This is many, many years of cancer, you know, cancer research and developing a chemo drug that is for me, you know, and possibly saving my life. And a huge thing that um somebody kind of turned me on to was like, chemo can either be poison or it could be medicine. And the name that you call it is sort of how your body's gonna trust it, you know. And I was like, this is healing medicine that's saving my life. So I just it was easier to trust. For me, also the gratitude came because I realized my entire life I wasn't grateful. And it was almost too late. So every day that I had was a day I'm going to be grateful for. I made that choice because I didn't know if I was gonna live or die. All I knew is I had today. And I had so much around me. I had friends, I had family, I had a loving dog who ended up getting cancer after me. But then he survived too. So we were two cancer survivors. He came as an angel. I really truly believe that he saved my life too.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

They are truly healers. They are healers.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

They're they're they're pieces of God too.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

That's my angel just a year ago.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Oh, and it's the hardest. Yeah. It's the hardest. Yeah. And they come and they find us and they love us as much as they can. And this guy, yeah, he took on some cancer with me. Uh but so I just realized I can either look at what I don't have or what I do have. And when I looked at what I did have, that grew and filled me with more gratitude and like a feeling that I'm good. You know, if I looked at or focused on what I didn't have, that would fill me with yuck and that would grow. So it's almost like whatever we want to grow, we should focus on that. If we're gonna focus on all the negativity, that negativity is gonna grow. And there's gonna be no room for gratitude. But if we just keep focusing on kind of like what we have, and if only we have is this breath and this life, that's enough. That was enough because my days could have been numbered.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

So I hope so many people hear this because lately I've been noticing a lot. We see a lot going on in the world, and it just seems like everyone is pouring all their energy into this negative stuff and people. And it's just, come on, people, let's use that energy for positive. And and one thing I've been talking

Living After Survival Mode

SPEAKER_03 29:55

about a lot lately is this idea, and I want to get your viewpoint on it, that many people know how to survive from whatever it is they're they're struggling with, but they don't know how to live after survival. In other words, they are actually uncomfortable with healing whatever is happening to them because they don't know who they are without it. And it's a it's just an angle that I think a lot of people don't look at. And sometimes I think subconsciously, not with cancer, of course, but with a lot of other behavioral issues and patterns, they don't want to see it. They don't want to think positively and heal it because then they've got to figure out how to maintain that peace and healing and how to maintain, you know, connections to themselves once the crisis changes. I think many people listening may realize they've spent years in fight or flight mode. And did cancer eventually teach you not just how to survive, but how to stay connected to your true self afterward?

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Yeah, and I think, you know, we all have these bad habits that as kids we probably take on because it's protection and it's like surviving skills. So it's not like we're doing anything wrong, you know, it's just a habit that um cancer was able to break because it was a life or death situation. I feel like that was a gift because if it was like not a life or death situation, I probably never would have learned the lesson. And it doesn't mean that I'm like this poly, polypositive person all the time. You know, like life still is life and life is still hard. But now my perspective is but I get to experience hard because the other choice would be I would be dead and I wouldn't get the hard, you know, so I know that I'm alive. And that gives me a little more perspective, just like I can cry and love this. These are tears because I'm crying and I'm sad and I get to be sad. You know, I get to have these fights with my husband and they're so annoying, but like, yay, I get to do it, you know, and we get to resolve it. And so it's that deeper perspective for me that is always there because I know I'm here. For other people, I think I think it always starts with like the awareness that you have the the pattern and the habit. And then once you become aware of the habit, then you get to choose a tool in your toolbox of what you want to use. Do you want to form another habit? It's gonna be hard, it's gonna be challenging, it might make you a better version of you, but you don't know. Do you wanna do that? And then it's kind of like you give everyone has a choice in how they want to heal or change and they don't have to. But as long as everyone knows like they have a choice, and some people and it's okay. Some people like to be angry, you know, that's okay. That's their choice. Some people like to be sad. Some people like to be really happy and not sad at all. You know, like it's just everyone is on their own kind of journey. I think the hardest thing for me is the lack of awareness sometimes, yeah, and the the blame. We we like to blame others on how we feel when it's almost like everybody is giving us a gift, a trigger to say, okay, this this is how I feel. This is he's triggering it. I can blame him, but like what's inside me that needs sort of work, you know?

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Yes, the curious, you get curious, the curiosity brings clarity. Yeah, you know, and and and awareness, those are critical into evolving into uh who you have always been, really. We're doing a series on it's called Becoming, and for the whole month of May. You would have been perfect for the Becoming series because you, you know, are becoming who you always were. It's just you were made aware, you became clear on what how to live your life. Like thinking part of healing is learning how to trust joy again without waiting for that other shoe to drop.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yeah, to trust joy and to choose joy and to know joy is always around when like yeah, I mean, sometimes the hardest thing for me in the beginning was like what brings me joy, you know, sometimes when you're not really that even aware because you're always just like giving, giving, giving to other people. Like, you know, you have to go on that journey of what brings me joy. And then once you go on the journey, you're like, I love this. Oh, I didn't know I meant this, and I love this. Um, but I like to, it's also interesting because I feel like childhood like gives us so much material and our adulthood is all about like processing childhood and figuring out, you know, all the damage that it's well, and they say that child still lives on inside of you. Well, yeah. And we all have a right to love and joy in our lives, you know. So if something isn't feeling like that, I wouldn't I wouldn't settle for it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

There's life is too short. It really is. And we talk a lot about you have a choice. You can be miserable, or you can take it just a moment, right? A little steps and be curious about how it can be different and try different things each day, one little small thing that could bring you joy. And because we forget who we are. We're so busy living up to these expectations we set on ourselves and doing all the things, being kids, husband, school, job, you know, all of it. And we forget ourselves, and then we don't have any, we have no clue what we like. We just feel numb inside.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

I believe like everybody likes to laugh, you know. So like that's always a go-to, like just find comedy comedians, you know, and just just start there because, you know, I think laughter is kind of healing.

Receiving Love Without Fear

SPEAKER_03 36:20

And now my favorite part, I can't wait to talk to you about this because this is a big pet peeve of mine as well. So you talk beautifully about love being a superpower, and but also about receiving love. And honestly, that a lot of high-functioning people are really good at giving, right? Like we talked about, or help hurts. But they're terrible at receiving because they had they think that it's weak or something to receive help or to receive love. You know, what do you why do you think love receiving it is so difficult for people?

SPEAKER_02 36:57

I can answer personally because for me, it was it's hard. This is totally unconscious, but I understand it now. It's because I didn't feel worthy. So it's hard to because it's like if you feel love and then I feel love, then I have to keep proving that's love that I could lose if I don't show up perfectly. So it's almost scarier to receive love because if you don't love yourself, then it doesn't align, you know, it's so it's easy to give, give, give, because in a way it's kind of like making sure that you're being the loving one and that person, it's like creating a wall in a way. And it works, you know, for moms and kids and all of that stuff, but like it's almost a sense of control, you know? Yes to give, give, give, give. And then receiving it is harder when you don't truly love yourself.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

Well, for me personally, I know from eight years of counseling, the reason I give, give, give is to make sure they're going to love me and need me.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

And if I if that if I expect anything in return, then that risks me losing that person. They're gonna leave me. Because the band is.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Yeah. It's almost like Yeah, I get it. It's like I I'm I'm I'm asking you to do something that might be too much for you, and then you're gonna say, you know, it's not worth it or something.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

It's so the cancer, did the cancer teach you that how to receive, you think?

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Big time. Yeah. Because I remember not being able to give, obviously. And I felt so taken care of by my family, by my husband. I felt like I had this like lift. Like I was going through treatment and people were just holding me like this. And I remember just how good it felt. And it was like something to feel gratify, like so much gratitude for like my family and my friends. And it's not like I had, you know, 20,000 people. It was just like a good five or 10, you know, that just like, you know, showed sent gifts in the mail, you know, thinking of you, cards, um, random gifts, you know, which is kind of like one of the reasons why I have a chemo love to program part of the foundation, because I wanted to be able to do that to other patients and show up for them and support them where they don't have to do anything. They're in treatment, they have a lot to deal with. I just wanted to sh it it felt so good to me as a patient, and I knew like I wanted to do that when I was on the other side.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Well, you're a rare jewel because growing up the way I did, I was pretty much invisible. But there were about a handful of people that saw me and they were kind to me and they went out of their way for me. And all that did to me as the receiver, it didn't make me feel bad. It made me want to be like them. Right. It made me think to myself, oh, that's I didn't realize that was out there. I want to do that because look how it made me feel. I want to do that for other people. So that's what you do by doing all that you're doing, you are an example to people that have no clue how important it is.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Yeah, I mean, it makes me feel good too, that I can they're being helped, I'm being helped, you know, it's like that cycle that we were talking about. Yeah. Uh, but I also think, you know, we don't always understand that we have a choice, especially going through cancer. Like most of us are like, I'm gonna fight this, I'm gonna beat it, I'm gonna get to the, you know, like it's that's what we've learned, that's our culture. But if I can share, just like you don't have to fight, you don't have to be angry, you don't have to think cancer is against you. This is how I learned, and I had stage four, thank God I don't have that anymore, you know. And I chose to make cancer my friend, you know. I'm not gonna like get married to cancer and say, oh my god, cancer, I love you so much. But like cancer was part of me. My cells are in me. I was saying I'm gonna love everything of me. Part of that was loving my cancer cells. And so just to give options, try it on. It might feel so weird to you, but I just like giving the choice, you know, like because we only know what we know, you know. And like, for example, somebody said like chemo can be poison or it can be medicine. Like, oh yeah, interesting, you know.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

So there's an alternative to this.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

There is, there's always, and you know, and it's just like so powerful. The stories, the story, it's all a story. So, what do you want to write? I wanted to be the hero of the my story, and I wanted to make cancer the best thing to happen to me.

SPEAKER_03 41:59

It was your awakening. I think awakening describes it perfectly for you. That's the writer in me.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Yes, no, I'm so grateful for cancer. I'm so grateful that it left. It all worked out.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the zero negative foundation.

Zero Negative Foundation And Resources

SPEAKER_03 42:15

Can you tell us what inspired that and and how do patients and caregivers need it most emotionally?

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Well, like I was saying with the chemo leveltope program, it's our way of supporting the patients. So that's like our main program right now, part of the foundation. It was really inspired just to because nobody should have to go through cancer alone. So my passion was to give back to cancer research and be part of that team looking for a cure, but also empower patients who are on the other side receiving the amazing treatment that's being, you know, brought up to them. So it's kind of like we are a team, the patient, the doctor, the caregiver. It's like we're all working for the same result. So I wanted to empower patients, support them, send them prayer, send them love, and allow them to try to enjoy the journey as best as they can. You know, it's harder to say that.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

Well, how would how would someone find this? How would someone be involved with it or take advantage of it? How do they find that?

SPEAKER_02 43:19

They um the website is zero negativefoundation.org. And what we are in the process of is expanding, you know, I told you the caregiver movement. So we have um fundraising campaigns that are coming up. People can donate on the site, and people can kind of go in and look for the chemo leptop program. And you know, if they have a friend in cancer, there's a way they can send something to them. So that is the site.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

I love that. And we'll be sure and put that in the show notes. You've also mentioned pinch me, the pinch me method. And I'll just Curious the pinch me method, and I was wondering if you could explain how it works, because I think so many people listening right now are are craving presence. Do you actually physically speak? Do you speak to people about the pinch me method, or how do you put it into practice?

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Pam, I am trying so hard to speak to people about the pinch me method. That's one of the reasons why I'm with two market media, because I and one of the reasons why I'm so excited for the TED Talk is because I really do want to start speaking a lot more. Um, I do speak now, like at the foundation uh fundraisers and that kind of thing. But um the pinch me method is kind of like when life throws you a curveball. It could be a bad day, it could be cancer, it could be you losing your job, you're just like overwhelmed, you're crazy, you're like feeling out of control. You can pinch yourself, and that kind of brings you into the awareness, pauses the sort the cycle of the downward spiral, the anxiety and the overwhelm. And then you take a breath. My mantra is life is working out perfectly, even if it doesn't look like it, and ask the question, what's in this for me? And so it can be a really bad thing or it can be a not so bad thing. But it's whenever you're kind of losing yourself with anxiety, and it takes you into the present moment, which is when you know you have a choice and how you want to move forward. So that's basically the gist of the punch me method.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

And I love it. I've never heard of anything like it, but man, does it sum it up well and it really gets the point across. I love it. So uh my becoming series I mentioned earlier, I believe the reason I have it is because I believe life keeps inviting us back to ourselves. You know, not not who survival made us become, but who we actually are underneath it all. So when you look at yourself now, who have you become through this journey?

SPEAKER_00 46:12

I have aware that we are love and that when we align in our superpower, which is love and gratitude and trust, uh everything's everything is just on our side.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

And uh everything that is happening to us is happening to get us more aligned.

unknown 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

Yeah. What does healing mean to you

Advice For A New Diagnosis

SPEAKER_03 46:48

right now? I mean, what would you say to someone that's in the middle of this fear, maybe cancer, maybe they've just been diagnosed? How would you tell them to start on this path to healing?

SPEAKER_02 47:01

Well, first, if they haven't chosen their oncologist yet, I would say make sure they have a couple opinions, at least two, three, four, and make sure that they choose the doctor that they trust and let the doctor do what the doctor's supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

And then for the healing journey, I would I would try to find joy every day, find gratitude every day.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Don't try to take care of other people. Like some people don't want to say they have cancer. I mean, I feel like this is your time. This is your cancer cation. This is your time to be taken care of. Cancercation. Everybody should be, especially you. Why is this what's in this for me? Don't try to like brush through it and just pretend it's not happening, get the wig, and like just go about your day like nothing's happening. You know, it's really about honoring the journey. This journey was is here for a reason. Hopefully, it's a very short journey, a very short chapter. It's not going to be the most fun chapter, but it's making you into a superpower person and igniting superpowers that you might not know that you have. And uh I'm excited for those superpowers to become part of the world because it's almost like you heal, you heal the world. You know, you're a better person from it, the world's a better person for it. So thank you for healing and for, you know, embracing your journey in the best way that you can.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

Yes,

Where To Find Jen’s Work

SPEAKER_03 48:51

yes. So, oh, I love that. For the listeners who are really connecting with your message today, and you know, I you gave us one website, but are there other are there other ways to find your work or to support you?

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Um, I was mentioning the accessory brand that I started. It's called Love Zero Negative. And the reason it's zero negative is because my cancer was called triple negative. So the breast cancer was like the worst type of breast cancer, aggressive. And when you say triple negative, it really sounds like a death sentence.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

Triple negative.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

And so I was like, how do I flip that? And like it became okay, zero negative means there is no negative, which is how I kind of looked at cancer. There is no negative, it's only positive. This is life, this is an experience. So that is why it's called zero negative. And love zero negative is just like we're sending these accessories into the world and spreading love and giving back. So that website is lovezero negative.com. And uh it's really cute stuff. It's it's coat bags, crossbody bags, and uh clutches. And uh the speaking website is Jen, J E N N Green Hut.com. And I'm going to be launching that after the TED Talks.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

And we're gonna put everything in the show notes. And if you know of anyone looking for any foundations to donate to or be involved with, please read those those websites and and just get involved, people. Start looking outside of yourself and just give there's one more thing.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Everyone needs a Larry is on Amazon. That's our book. The book that I wrote with my husband. And it's it is gonna become a movie. It's in development. So romantic comedy with cancer, and uh there's a happy ending story because I live and so I cannot wait.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

Oh my gosh, y'all. We're gonna have to stay in touch. Maybe have you on again when the movie fires off, but I don't know. It's really awesome.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

But you know, the book is out, so at least

Final Reminder And Closing

SPEAKER_02 51:00

the book.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

Well, before we close, is there anything else on your heart that you'd love to leave our listeners with today?

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Just you're special, you're here. Keep looking for, you know, just gratitude and be so grateful for just being alive because you never know. We just never know what's gonna happen. And life is just meant to be appreciated and loved.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

Well, you're amazing, Jen. And this conversation it felt like such a powerful reminder for all of us that even in the hardest moments of life, there is still meaning, connection, beauty, and becoming not because suffering is easy, but because perspective changes how we carry it. And I think what you shared today is going to help a lot of people feel less alone. Thank you for being here for this episode of Delay the Binge. If today's conversation spoke to you at all, share it with someone who may need hope, perspective, or simply the reminder that they are not alone. And if you're someone who has spent years surviving, holding it all together, doing it all on your own, constantly pushing through. Maybe, just maybe, this is your reminder that healing is not just about getting through hard things. It's about learning how to stay connected to yourself afterward. That's the work of becoming. If you'd like more conversations like this, you can find me at delaythebench.com. You can also subscribe to the podcast on YouTube at PamDwyerspeaker. And remember, you don't have to fix everything today. Sometimes transformation begins with one pause, one breath, one choice to stay present instead of escaping. That's how you build momentum, and that's how you heal, and that's how become begins. See y'all next week. Thanks, Jen.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

Thank you.